Logistics Ships 101
This chapter contains the standard information of this class pertaining to scheduling and class contents. The General Information should be sufficient to create a proper class topic for scheduling on the Eve University forum. Additional information relevant to the teacher is listed under Notes for the Teacher.
Illustration link for class description on the Eve University forum: http://eve.wikia.com/wiki/File:Guardian512.jpg R&B battle for Eve Uni POS http://images.wikia.com/eve/images/6/6d/OspreyCombat.png
Describe the general purpose and objectives of the class, and the intended audience.
- Duration: 60 minutes [and an additional 30 minutes/hours for the optional practical exercise]
- Location: Docked up safely in a station in Aldrat
- What is a logistics ship?
- Why fly a logistics ship?
- How to fly a logistics ship
- Recommended logistics ship skills
- Available logistics implants
- Tips for flying logistics in Incursions
[* Practical exercise]
- Mumble registration and access - make sure you have Mumble sorted out and operational well before the class begins. Use this guide for set-up: Mumble
- Access to the Class.E-UNI in-game chat channel
[* A suitable ship, of the logistics type and fitted for remote repair or energy transfer + a Damage Dealing ship of the same race type, for the optional practical exercise]
Additional information: This class is primarily lecture delivered in the Class.E-UNI channel in Mumble, followed by Q&A. [An optional practical exercise follows.]
Notes for the Teacher
- Class.E-UNI chat channel, to receive questions and post relevant links
- In addition to the ship links listed in the syllabus, examples of modules for remote armor repair, shield repair and energy transfer are useful.
- Logistics Guide on the UNI wiki: Guide_to_Logistics
Welcome to this class on Logistics Ships 101!
This course is designed primarily for pilots who would like a general introduction to logistics ships, why you should consider flying one, and what you will need to train to fly one effectively.
(Instructor should then introduce himself or herself - covering relevant experience level and background.)
We have a few ground rules for this class:
- Please make sure your Mumble settings are configured for "Push to Talk" if you have not already done so.
- Feel free to type any questions in the Class.E-UNI chat channel as we proceed - I will try to answer your questions as they come during the class. [At the end of my lecture, we'll open Mumble for any further questions or general discussion.]
- You should be [docked up safely in a station [in Aldrat if you intend to participate in the practical exercise], or located....]
Everyone ready? OK, then - let's begin....
Why fly a logistics ship?
Logistics are the ultimate "team play" ships - ships that are useless on their own but multiply the effectiveness of the gang exponentially. Its extremely rare a FC will say "I don't want another logi." In addition to this, logistics pilots are highly sought after for by both PVP and PVE corps. Wormhole corps in particular love logistics pilots for running C4-C6s.
If you want to help your corp, want your fellow corpmates to love you, and want to be wanted, perhaps logistics is the right path for you.
Logistics is now relatively easy to get into but can become a quite skill intensive role to do well. Listening to a FC call primaries and activating your guns on them one after another is nothing compared to juggling reps on a 40 man fleet, trying to keep everyone (and yourself!) alive for as long as possible and turning a losing battle into a win, often beating fleets twice or three time the size of you purely through the power of your ship and skill.
Recommended logistics ship skills
T1 Logisitics modules
- Repair Systems 2.
- Mechanics 3.
- Remote Armor Repair Systems 1 to 5.
- Science 2.
- Engineering 3.
- Shield Emission Systems 1 to 5.
- Science 2.
- Engineering 3.
- Energy Emission Systems 1 to 5.
- Multitasking, for targeting multiple targets, requires Targeting 5.
- Long range targeting
- Signature Analysis
These skills you should have before hopping in a T2 logistics hull.
- Long Range Targeting 5 (prerequisite for Logistics)
- Signature Analysis 5 (prerequisite for Logistics)
- Logistics 4
- Repair Drone Operation 4 (with at least 40km control length)
- Electronics 5
- Targeting 5 and Multitasking 3 (10 targets total)
- Energy Emission Systems 4 (Basilisk and Guardian)
- Shield Emissions 4 (Basilisk and Scimitar)
- Remote Armor Repair Systems 4 (Guardian and Oneiros)
- Engineering 5
- Energy Management 4-5
- Energy Systems Operation 4-5
- Shield Management or Hull upgrades 5
- Shield Compensation Skills (Basilisk and Scimitar)
- Armor Compensation skills (Guardian and Oneiros)
- Rigging skills
Also, a full T2 tank (required during UNI wartime)
Tech 1 Logisitic Frigates
- Amarr - Inquisitor - bonus to remote armor repair systems, 3 x 80 HP / 5 secs
- Caldari - Bantam - bonus to range of Shield Transporters, 3 x 80 HP / 5 secs
- Gallente - Navitas - bonus to remote armor repair systems, 3 x 80 HP / 5 secs
- Minmatar - Burst - bonus to range of Shield Transporters, 3 x 80 HP / 5 secs
These frigates have limited logisitics power and weak tank so in PvP their use is limited to specialised roles such as Faction warfare in ship size restricted complexes. For Logi 101 practical exercises these are used to demonstrate logisitic modules and energy transfer. In Eve Uni fleets the T1 Logi cruiser is preferred.
Tech 1 Logisitic Cruisers
- Amarr - Augoror - bonuses to remote armor repairs and energy transfers, 3 x 192 HP / 5 secs - 108 points ET / 5 secs
- Like it's shield transfering cousin the Osprey, the Augoror is not designed to be cap stable on its own, but instead to trade capacitor with other Augorors. Because of the 200% bonus to energy transfer amount, Augorors trading energy transfers to each other effectively create a large amount of capacitor out of nothing. This allows Augorors to be cap stable with lower skills than its sister ship the Exequror, and makes it resistant to energy neuts. On the down side this makes it more vulnerable to jams, because a jammed Augoror not only can't rep but also can't give capacitor, reducing its partners' ability to rep.
- Caldari - Osprey - bonuses to shield transfers and energy transfers. 3 x 192 HP / 5 Sec - 108 points ET / 5 secs
- The Osprey is not designed to be cap stable on its own, but instead to trade capacitor with other Ospreys. Because of the 200% bonus to energy transfer amount, Ospreys trading energy transfers to each other effectively creates a large amount of capacitor out of nothing. This allows Ospreys to be cap stable with lower skills than its sister ship the Scythe, and makes it resistant to energy neuts. On the down side this makes it more vulnerable to jams, because a jammed Osprey not only can't rep but also can't give capacitor, reducing its partners' ability to rep.
- Gallente - Exequror - bonuses to remote armor repair range and power, as well as bonuses for armor maintenance drones. 3 x 192 HP / 5 Sec
- It is designed to fit 3 Medium Remote Armor Repairers in its highs and armor tank in the lows. Getting the Exequror to be cap stable with 3 reppers and a good tank can be tricky for low skill pilots. The drones are normally used to support other logistics ships in your fleet and will continue to work even if you are jammed.
- Minmatar - Scythe - bonuses to shield transporter boost amount and range, as well as bonuses for shield maintenance drones. 3 x 192 HP / 5 Sec
- It is designed to support 3 medium shield transporters and a shield tank and be cap stable, but getting the Scythe both cap stable and have a good tank can be tricky for low skilled pilots. The drones are normally used to support other logistics ships in your fleet and will continue to work even if you are jammed.
These much more powerful cruiser-sized ships are key members of Eve Uni PvP fleets and can extend the life of your fleet mates with remote shield, armor repair and energy transfers, as well as logistics drones. Logistics pilots are well loved by their fleet mates, but are very specialized and almost helpless on their own. Even one or two of these ships can turn the tide of a battle, but take a dedicated pilot to devote themselves to them, as you don't end up on the killboards much. Parallels can be drawn between logistics ships and the "Healer" or "Priest" class in other MMOs - you keep your friends alive so the DPS can do their thing and blow stuff up. Your opponents know this so logistic ships are normally primary targets.
The Augoror and Osprey logistic ships are flown in groups, with a minimum of two per fleet, who can energy transfer to each other and, using their bonus to energy transfer amount, achieve capacitor stability. The Exequror and Scythe are flown as solo logistic ships or if there are insufficient Augorors/Ospreys pilots in the fleet, however they generally require higher skills to be equally effective because they must be capactior stable on their own.
Tech 2 Logisitic Cruisers
- Amarr - Guardian - Bonus to remote armor transfer and remote energy transfer efficiency and range, bonus to armor maintenance bot transfer amount. 4 x 384 HP / 5 Sec - 324 point ET / 5 secs
Amarr Cruiser Skill Bonus: 150% bonus to Energy Transfer Array and Remote Armor Repair System range and 20% bonus to Armor Maintenance Bot transfer amount per level.
Logistics Skill Bonus: 15% reduction in Energy Transfer Array and Remote Armor Repair System capacitor use per level.
Role Bonus: -65% power need for Remote Armor Repair Systems and -50% power need for Energy Transfer Arrays.
- Caldari - Basilisk- Bonus to remote energy tranfer and remote shield transfer efficiency and range, bonus to shield maintenance bot transfer amount. 4 x 384 HP / 5 Sec - 324 point ET / 5 secs
Caldari Cruiser Skill Bonus: 150% bonus to Shield Transport and Energy Transfer Array range and 20% bonus to Shield Maintenance Bot transfer amount per level
Logistics Skill Bonus: 15% reduction in Shield Transport and Energy Transfer Array capacitor use per level
Role Bonus: -50% CPU need for Shield Transporters and -50% power need for Energy Transfer Arrays
- Gallente - Oneiros - Bonus to remote armor tranfer and tracking links efficiency and range, bonus to armor maintenance bot transfer amount.
Gallente Cruiser Skill Bonus: 150% bonus to Remote Armor Repair System and Tracking Link range 20% bonus to Armor Maintenance Bot transfer amount per level
Logistics Skill Bonus: 15% reduction in Remote Armor Repair System capacitor use and 10% bonus to Tracking Link efficiency per level
Role Bonus: -65% power need for Remote Armor Repair Systems
- Minmatar - Scimitar - Bonus to remote shield tranfer and tracking links efficiency and range, bonus to shield maintenance bot transfer amount. 4 x 384 HP / 5 Sec
Minmatar Cruiser Skill Bonus: 150% bonus to Tracking Link and Shield Transport range and 20% bonus to Shield Maintenance Bot transport amount per level
Logistics Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Tracking Link efficiency and 15% reduction in Shield Transport capacitor use per level
Role Bonus: -50% CPU need for Shield Transporters
T2 logistic ships have small signature radius, decent speed, and high resists. Even though they are the healer, they are tougher than a lot of other ships and will either be attempted to taken down first, jammed, or left to last if they are too tough a nut to crack, leaving your other more fragile, but high DPS ships to deal the pain while you are being concentrated on. I would advise against flying a logistics ship if you do not like to be primary.
Each of the T2 ships specialize in two areas of either Armor, Shield, Tracking Links, or Energy Transfers, where the T1 version only gets a bonus to one. In addition, the T2 ships also receive fitting bonuses for either shield, armor, or energy transfers. These make it possible for the ships to fit 4 large reps each, as well as two energy transfers on top of this for the Amarr and Caldari variants, as they get 6 high slots to the Oneiros and Scimitars 4. The T2 variants also have drone bays suitable for 5 lights (Guardian and Basilisk, 25m3) up to 45m3 for the Scimitar and 50m3 for the Oneiros. ECM drones, Warrior II's or Shield/Armor maintenance bots are common.
The T2 versions require a fairly high level of support skills. Racial Cruiser 5, Long Range Targeting 5, Signature Analysis 5, as well as at least Logistics 4 to fly effectively (logistics 5 is better) and Multitasking 3. (Multitaking 4 & 5 are for special doctrine fits only. It is rare than any ship needs more than 10 targets.)
There is a divide between the Amarr/Caldari and the Gallente/Minmtar T2 logistic ships in the way the ships are used. Both the Caldari and Amarr ships are flown in pairs or small groups. With their 6 high slots, typically fit with 4 large remote reps and 2 large energy transfers, Caldari and Amarr logistics ships will target each other and each activate their remote energy transfers on each other. With the logistic ships energy transfer efficiency bonuses, this allows the ships to transfer substantially more cap than it takes to run the energy transfer - effectively creating cap out of thin air, enough to run the 4 large reps indefinately. Two Guardians or Basilisks, if left alone, can stay on 100% cap for the entire fight, while constantly running reps that would suck any other ship dry of capacitor in moments.
The Scimitar and the Oneiros are designed with more of a solo role in mind. With only 4 high slots for reps, they lack the energy transfer bonus that makes capactior chains possible. This makes it significantly more difficult to keep cap stable. In return they are faster, more nimble, have a bonus to tracking links, and aren't dependant on the cap chain to maintain their ability to rep.
Often the Guardian and Basilisk are said to be better, because they fit better into the more common large fleet warfare, where the strengths of the Scimitar and Oneiros are negated and the strengths of the Guardian and Basilisk shine, but the Scimitar and Oneiros are still widely used for their speed, independence, and tracking links in battlecruiser and below gangs as well as the smaller gang PvE content including smaller incursion sites and the easier sleeper sites.
A carrier has a 50% per level range bonus to two of the following, depending on which race's carrier it is: capital energy transferers, capital shield transporters and capital remote armor repairers.
In addition to that, the Chimera and Archon get a resistances bonus (5% per level to armor for Archon, shield for Chimera), the Nidhoggur gets a capital remote rep amount bonus (7.5% per level to armor and shield repair amounts) and the Thanatos gets a fighter damage bonus (5% per level). All carriers get the ability to control one extra drone per level in addition to the normal five, and the ability to use fighters (but not fighter bombers).
They can't fit any guns or launchers at all, so the high slots are usually used for energy neutralizers, smartbombs (for killing drones or small ships) and remote reps or energy transfer arrays.
(with thanks to Kristin Invictus for his input)
Logistics on steroids
ORE needed a long range logistics ship to support deep space mining operations and that ship needed to be able to provide everything required to support that fleet, including capital shield transporters to protect the fleet.
A 6 billion Isk logistics ship on steroids Rorqual
Ship Bonuses: 50% bonus to the range of Capital Shield Transporters per level. 20% bonus to drone damage and hit points per level.
Role Bonuses: 900% bonus to the range of survey scanners. 200% bonus to the range of cargo scanners.
Can fit Clone Vat Bay. Can use 3 Warfare Link modules simultaneously.
This capability makes the Rorqual a very potent battlefield logistics ship, so if you have a buddy with a Rorqual take good care of him, shower him with recognition and Isk to keep the Rorqual in fuel.
(with thanks to Z Dogman, 1SA, for his input)
Shield Maintenance Bots:
- Light = 12 HP / 5 secs
- Medium = 24 HP / 5 secs
- Heavy = 60 HP / 5 secs
Skills: Shield Emission Systems 3, Repair Drone Operation lvl 1 min
Armor Maintenance Bots:
- Light = 12 HP / 5 secs
- Medium = 24 HP / 5 secs
- Heavy = 60 HP / 5 secs
Skills: Remote Armor Repair Systems 3, Repair Drone Operation lvl 1 min
Logistic ships should carry logi bots and use them as part of their logistic roles. Also, using logistic drones is not considered an aggressive act, so if you are fighting on a gate or a station then you will be able to jump / dock if you get aggressed. This could save your ship. In a kitting fleet you could carry combat drones to add DPS.
Energy Transfer Chains
There are a number of ways the energy transfer chain can be set up. It is for the logistics squad commander to tell you which system he wants you to use.
The simplest system is one transfer up and one transfer down in pilot name by alphabetic order. The bottom and top pilots link to complete the chain. If there are more than three logistic ships in the chain then there is an increasing risk that a break in the chain would cause a cascade failure of the whole ET chain.
The Uni doctrine for ET chains is pairs or triplets. The logistics squad commander says who is in which pair / triplet based on trying to match experienced logistics pilots with newer logistics pilots and each pair/triplet start their own private channel for speed of communication in battle conditions. Use "ET up" to show you have your ET running, "j" for jammed, "uj" for unjammed and "d" for down (blown up or warped out). If triplet looses a ship it becomes a pair. If a pair looses a ship then the remaining pilot uses "Need ET buddy" in logi chat channel and the SC will assign the solo logi to one of the other pairs or make a new pair.
Sensor Booster and ECCM modules
The enemy fleet will try to remove our logi support by either blowing up our Logi ships or using EWAR on them.
To increase resistance to ECM train these skills, will work for any ship
- Gravimetric Sensor Compensation (rank 2) - +4% to Caldari sensor strength per lvl
- Magnetometric Sensor Compensation (rank 2) - +4% to Gallente sensor strength per lvl
- Radar Sensor Compensation (rank 2) - +4% to Amarr sensor strength per lvl
- Ladar Sensor Compensation (rank 2) - +4% to Minmatar sensor strength per lvl
- Sensor backup array - passive low slot module, weaker than ECCM mid mod, does not eat cap, cannot overheat it, racial and multispectral variants
- ECCM - active mid slot, can be overheated, has better bonus than sensor backup array, racial and multispectral variants
- Projected ECCM - active mid slots, cannot be overheated, you remotely boost sensor strength of a targeted ship, this has the best bonus of the three modules, one module for all racial sensor strengths
- Summary - Projected ECCM > ECCM > Sensor backup array
Tactics against ECM drones:
- use the mods and skills listed above to reduce the chance to get jammed, remember there is always a chance to get jammed
- use frigates and dessies to kill enemy drones
- use dedicated drone bunny for logi, that will clear the drones attacking logi, he can use the combat drones from logi ships
Sensor boosters with targeting range scripts are used to increase resistance to sensor damping.
If you have an ECCM module fitted then carry a sensor booster in your hold so that you have the option of changing module mid fleet if instructed to do so by your SC / FC. If you have 2 mid slots available then use one for ECCM and the other for sensor booster.
What to do in a logistics ship?
- Tech 1 Logi ships are used for level 4 security missions with battle cruiser damage dealers. The BC's have less tank than a BS so they need logi support. Excellent training ground for logi pilots and for those wanting to move into Incursions.
- Tech 2 Logi ships are essential members of Incursion fleets.
- X up in Alliance with type of logi you can fly Armor / Shield / Both and tech level
- * the FC will use this information to decide whether the fleet should be armor or shield tanked. (Note: doctrine fleets will have specified this in advance)
- On invite into the fleet check that you are in the logi squad. (Note: some FCs include logi in the DD squad but this can cause problems with warping at optimals)
- You should be invited in a Logi chat channel. If not ask for an invite.
- The Logi Squad Commander will use the Logi chat channel to sort out:
- what ship you are flying
- cap buddies for ETs and sequence for cap chain breaks
- should you anchor on the SC or fly independently
- When you undock turn on all your modules to check that you are cap stable. Inform your SC if you are not cap stable.
- Switch your Safety to yellow and watch for agression timers
- Add you logi bros to your watch list along with the interceptors. (Note: The interceptors need logi support to keep them alive until secondary point can be achieved so if your interceptor has called point then your priority is to get logi on them before anything else.)
- tab your fleet window to the history screen, use the options menu to focus on what is important to you, such as calls for your type of logi.
- During combat:
- Check broadcasts
- Deploy and apply your drones
- If your cap chain breaks then reset your caps using the sequence set out by your SC.
- Apply logi support to fleet members who call for your support. You can target directly from the fleet history tab.
- Manage your rep modules, switch them on and off and move them between those in need as required. Overheat if needed.
- Notify your SC if you are being jammed and who is jamming you. Your SC should pass this to the FC so that the jammer can be targeted.
- If you are agressed align out and prepare to warp out if your ship is at risk. Use distance as a shield.
- After Combat:
- Notify your SC if you have an aggression timer.
A hypothetical situation:
You are a Augoror / Osprey pilot in a 30 person gang, mostly frigates and a cruisers, a handful of battlecruisers and battleships (a typical e-uni fleet), and another Augoror / Osprey pilot. Your scout discovers a 20 person fleet gate-camping in a nearby lowsec system.
The FC can choose to send the two logistics pilots in as well as a handful of the tougher ships as bait. Engage the enemy, point as many as you can, wait until they engage, and bring the rest of the fleet in. The logistics pilots will keep everyone alive against the superior odds long enough for you to engage them. Or, you can simply warp in at optimal with the rest of the fleet and begin the combat. A typical engagement will go something like this.
FC orders a warp to optimal ranges to engage the gatecamp.
1) If the fight on the gate is at 0, warp to optimal on your ST / AR. Make sure your energy transfer buddy warps at a similar range.
2) Target any ships used as bait and activate reps on them. Target your logi partner and start the cap transfer chain. Activate afterburner (if you are using one) and get angular velocity to the enemy fleet. Ideally you want your fleet between you and the enemy.
3) Use the watch list as well as people announcing in the fleet history window that they need help. If you have multiple logistics you may wish to look after a squad each. Logistics can handle 10 targets, so pre-locking is a vital tactic if you know who is likely to be primed.
4) Watch out in particular for your fellow logi partners. Together you have the power of 8-10 reps. When he is under attack only 4-5 are available. If one gets too damaged, then they should bounce out, rep to full, then warp back in, or you need to let your partner know you will need reps as soon as you re-hit the grid.
5) Keep an eye out for EWAR ships - remote sensor damps can increase your lock time and decrease your lock range, you will need to move closer, or even better warp in closer to your fleet if these are present. Jamming ships can break your energy transfer chain and keep your reps from being effective. Logistics ships have naturally high sensor strength and usually fit ECCM, but you aren't invincible to jams, and it only takes one or two to really mess your fleet up if they are relying on you. Your FC should know to target these ships first if possible.
6) Keep an eye out for energy neutralizers. The occasional nos or neut is ok, but a dedicated neut ship like a Curse or a Domi with multiple large neuts is going to cap you out. Inform your SC if you are becoming cap unstable and who has agressed you.
7) Use your drones as needed. Shield / Armor maintenance bots are usually put on your logi partner. Warrior II's are launched to attack enemy drones or small ships (frigates / inteceptors etc) harassing you. ECM drones can be used to break an enemy tacklers lock or placed on an enemy jam ship or logistics.
8) Keep your SC informed if something is going wrong. The FC will have a plan in mind that takes into account the power of your reps. If you are jammed, that's vital information. If the logi chain is breaking, they need to know to plan accordingly.
9) Your job isn't over once your fleet is victorious or you scatter. Stick with the regrouping fleet and continue to rep people so re-engagement is possible asap. You never know when reinforcements might come, you get hit again, or your FC decides to re-engage the enemy fleet.
Logistics for Incursion fleets
- Understand incursion ship roles: logi, anchor, drone bunny, DD/snipers, Off-Grid Boosters (OGB)
- Set up your watch list
- Understand your cap chain in advance
- Know how you will be moving or whom you will be orbiting in advance
- Understand how to "L" up as ready and what you are promising
- Understand the sequence of activating gate and landing on grid
- Begin orbiting immediately in order to break invulnerability and allow others to target you for cap transfers
- Set up the cap chain while repairing the anchor
- Lock additional targets while repairing the anchor
- Understand broadcasts
- Why it's great to be able to lock 10 targets
- What to do if you have more ships to repair than you can lock simultaneously
- What to do if you get jammed
- What to do if your cap buddy gets jammed
- Logistics drone tactics in Incursions
- Miscellaneous special roles like collecting civilians and delivering Lyavite ore
|7||Inherent Implants 'Noble' Remote Armor Repair Systems||RA-701||RA-702||RA-703||RA-704||RA-705||RA-706||reduced capacitor need for remote armor repair system modules|
|7||Inherent Implants 'Squire' Energy Emission Systems||ES-701||ES-702||ES-703||ES-704||ES-705||ES-706||reduced capacitor need for energy emission systems|
|8||Zainou 'Gnome' Shield Emission Systems||SE-801||SE-802||SE-803||SE-804||SE-805||SE-806||reduces capacitor need for shield emission system modules|
Extra Credit Section
- setting up a logi channel
- designing cap chains
- flexible fits (and what modules to bring with you)
- servicing cap requests
- defending against cap neuting
Class Wrap-up and Practical
- Thanks for attending this class!
- I would appreciate any feedback from people on how to improve the class
- Questions ?
[* Practical exercise: ....]
- Form 2 fleets, 1 shield tanked and 1 armor tanked. Continue to use Class-e.uni chat and Class mumble.
- Invite Op Fort to take part, one fleet could be Op Fort.
- Have 1 fleet in their logi ships and the other in their DD ships. Teacher to be in logi fleet.
- Undock both fleets, have the logi fleet at nearest celestial to the station with Teacher at zero. Have the DD warp in at optimals and try to blow up the logi fleet.
- Any logi ships that loose their tank to dock up repair, undock and rejoin fleet.
- Keep going until logi organised enough to withstand the DD.
- Dock both fleets, have them change from logi to DD and DD to logi.
- Repeat exercise.
- The UniWiki's page on Identifying Visual Effects