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Turret damage: Difference between revisions

From EVE University Wiki
Djavin novienta (talk | contribs)
Edited hatnote.
Attempted a rewrite of several unclear parts (that i was originally guilty of, oh the shame)
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{{Weapon Systems Links}}
{{Weapon Systems Links}}
==Hit chance==
==Hit chance==
A turret always has a 0–100 percent chance to hit a target. The hit chance is affected by turret tracking, optimal and falloff ranges, target angular velocity, target distance and target signature radius.
A turrets chance to hit a target is calculated from several parameters. The resulting value is between 0 and 1, or 0% and 100% if you will.  
The hit chance of a turret is given by formula
 
<math>\pagecolor{Black}\color{White}\text{Chance to Hit} = {0.5^{\left({\left({\frac{V_{angular} \times 40000m}{WAS \times sig_{target}}}\right)^{2} + \left({\frac{max(0, Distance - opt_{turret})}{fall_{turret}}}\right)^{2}}\right)}}</math>
 
V<sub>angular</sub> is angular velocity (sideways movement between the attacker and the target, expressed as an angle (in radians) per second)


===Falloff and optimal range===
WAS is weapon accuracy and means how well the turret can track a moving target, higher is better
Inside optimal range the gun will suffer no reduction in hit chance due to distance. If the target is sitting still inside the optimal range, every single attack will hit it.


Falloff is an extra range that goes beyond your optimal range. This is, however, not a limit value, like the optimal range is. It is best described as a gradual loss of hit chance. Distance of falloff + optimal represents the distance at which you are down to a 50% hit chance. At optimal plus two times your falloff value your hit chance is down to 6.25%, even though it is unlikely you can still hit your target at that range, and at three times your falloff range the chance to hit is only 0.2%.
sig<sub>target</sub> is target signature radius (aka target size, a big target is easier to track)


Falloff and optimal ranges are visible in turret info window. They are further modified by skills, ammo, modules, hull bonuses and incoming tracking disruptors. Target distance is visible on overview.
distance is range to target in meters


===Turret tracking===
opt<sub>turret</sub> is optimal range of turret  
Tracking is a value that indicates how well you can hit targets that are passing you by, higher tracking is needed for faster moving targets. This is not a limit value either, in fact it works exactly as falloff does but without any optimal range. When the target's angular velocity is equal to the turret's tracking value divided by 40000 you will have a 50% hit chance (note: size of the target will also affect this, see below). Just as for falloff, when a target's angular velocity is two times your tracking, the hit chance is down to 6.25%.


Turret tracking is visible in turret info window. It is modified by skill, ammo, modules, hull bonuses and incoming tracking disruptors.
fall<sub>turret</sub> is falloff of turret


Note that the turret tracking was recently changed. Any info that mentions turret signature resolution is outdated.
Those who like math may recognize that the hit chance equation has the form ''x''<sup>(''a''+''b'')</sup>, which can also be written as ''x<sup>a</sup>x<sup>b</sup>''. In our case, x = 0.5, a = all tracking terms and b = all range terms. In other words, the hit chance equation can be thought of as having two separate parts, which are multiplied at the end to get the final hit chance. This means that tracking and range can be treated as two seperate things.


===Angular velocity===
One more thing we can learn from the equation is that the loss of hit chance due to falloff and due to tracking share the exact same behaviour. So by understanding how falloff works, one also understands how tracking works, even if it's not immediately obvious.
This can be a tricky concept. It describes how fast something passes by something else. It is measured in in radians per second (rad/s), where one radian is equal to about a 57° angle (more accurately, 360°&nbsp;= 2&pi;&nbsp;radians). Your ingame overview can show this value if you open its settings and tick a box under the tab called columns. Angular velocity is used to determine the penalty to the hit chance based on the turret's tracking capabilities. Relying on high angular velocities to stay alive is called speed tanking (not to be mixed up with kiting). A cool headed player can use special maneuvers (like keep at range) or modules to drastically reduce the angular velocity of a foe to open up for some heavy handed blows against a target that is otherwise hard to track.
Example: At optimal+falloff a turret has 50% chance to hit. Against a target with the same angular velocity (rad/s) as a turrets tracking multiplied with the targets size and divided by 40 000 (the resulting number is in rad/s too), a turret has 50% chance to hit.


Angular velovity is calculated as ω=v<sub>t</sub>/d, where v<sub>t</sub> is tranversal velocity of the target relative to shooter and d is distance to target. The shooter and target will both have same angular velocity to each other.
===Falloff and optimal range===
With no hit chance loss from tracking, a target inside the optimal range of a turret will be hit 100% of the time.


===Target Signature Radius===
Falloff is an additional range that goes beyond the optimal. Falloff is different than optimal in the sense that it reflects a gradual loss of hit chance. When a target is at optimal+falloff the hit chance is down to 50%. At optimal+(2 x falloff) the hit chance is down to just 6.25%, but it's important to note that hits are still possible.  
It doesn't matter what a ship looks like physically. They are all treated as if they were spheres when they are shot at. The target signature radius describes how big this sphere is, the bigger it is the easier it will be to track with guns. Target signature radius only affects tracking and has no effect when shooting a stationary target.


Target signature radius is visible in ship fitting window. It is modified by modules, hull bonuses and incoming target painters.
When using turrets that fight inside falloff ranges it can be useful to know that being at optimal+(falloff/3) results in -11% average damage, being at optimal+(falloff/2) results in -22% average damage and being at optimal+falloff results in -61% average damage (note: average damage falls faster than hit chance due to how the random damage interval is calculated, see below).


===Hit chance formula===
Falloff and optimal ranges are visible in turret info window. They are further modified by skills, ammo, modules, hull bonuses and incoming tracking disruptors. Target distance is visible on the overview.
The chance to hit formula calculates the chance to hit a target based on the parameters listed above. The hit chance is always a number between 0 and 1, or 0% and 100% if you will. The computer then generates a random number to see if a hit is scored or not.  
The hit chance of a turret is given by formula


<math>\pagecolor{Black}\color{White}\text{Chance to Hit} = {0.5^{\left({\left({\frac{V_{angular} \times 40000m}{WAS \times sig_{target}}}\right)^{2} + \left({\frac{max(0, Distance - opt_{turret})}{fall_{turret}}}\right)^{2}}\right)}}</math>
===Turret tracking===
Tracking is a value that represents how well your turret can follow a moving ship. The equation is not fully realistic, it doesn't consider if the attacking ship is spinning around itself, it only considers the relative movement between the attacker and the target. This relative movement can from the attackers point of view be looked at as a change of the angle to the target, this angular speed can be seen on the overview. But don't make the mistake of thinking that a turret can hit a target just because it can turn fast enough to follow the angular speed of a target, it would be realistic if it could, but it's not how the equation works. Instead it behaves just like falloff, so when the turret turns as fast as the target moves, the chance to hit is 50%. This also means that the turret has a chance to hit a target that is moving faster than the turret can turn.
With the updates to tracking, the behaviour remained the same, but some variables have been changed to make it easier to compare the tracking ability of turrets. Unfortunately it also made tracking a bit harder to understand, since the turrets own turn speed (in rad/s) is no longer visible and hard to compare against the targets angular velocity (in rad/s). To get a turrets tracking value (in rad/s) so that it can be compared to the targets angular velocity (in rad/s) the following equation must be used:


where V<sub>angular</sub> is angular velocity of target, WAS is weapon tracking speed, sig<sub>target</sub> is target signature radius, distance is distance to target, opt<sub>turret</sub> is optimal range of turret and fall<sub>turret</sub> is falloff of turret.
turret tracking in rad/s = WAS x Target Signature Resolution / 40000


When a turret shots a target a random number between 0 and 1 is generated. If the random number is greater than the hit chance the shot misses. One thing that needs to be emphasized is that your own piloting can change your hit chance, by actively trying to control the range and the movements relative to your opponents.
Turret tracking is visible in turret info window. It is modified by skill, ammo, modules, hull bonuses and incoming tracking disruptors.


This equation can be abstracted to<br/>
Note that the turret tracking was recently changed. Any info that mentions turret signature resolution is outdated (they used to be 40m for small turrets, 125m for medium turrets and 400m for large turrets, now they all have 40000m).
* <math>\pagecolor{Black}\color{White}\text{Chance to Hit} = 0.5^{\text{tracking term} + \text{range term}}</math><br/>
Math students may recognize that something of the form ''x''<sup>(''a''+''b'')</sup> is identical to ''x<sup>a</sup>x<sup>b</sup>'', so we can rewrite the above as<br/>
* <math>\pagecolor{Black}\color{White}\text{Chance to Hit} = 0.5^{\text{tracking term}} \cdot 0.5^{\text{range term}}</math><br/>
From this we can see that tracking and range are actually calculated separately, then the results from each are multiplied. This shows that Range and Tracking are indeed two different and independent things, and both will be used to score a hit.


There is also one more thing we can find out by just looking at the equation. This is, however, a little trickier to follow, but the conclusion is easy. The aim is to compare the tracking term and the range term for similarities in how they behave. Do they have anything in common? To do this, we will freeze all values in those respective terms except for one variable in each, that will be 'turret tracking' and 'falloff' respectively. Then we can look at how that single variable effects the outcome in each case and see if there is any similarities between them.
===Angular velocity===
This can be a tricky concept. Instead of measuring the speed as m/s or miles/hour, it can be also be measured as the percieved angular movement of an object from a certain location. A good example is the suns movement across the sky, where it moves 360° in 24 hours. If the sun is moving away or towards us is irrelevant, that wouldn't change the angle to it, the only thing important is the sideways movement which changes the angle.
Just as a circle can be described as an angle of 360°, it can also be described as an angle of 2&pi; radians. Meaning that one radian equals to (360/2&pi;) roughly 57°.
The ingame overview can show the angular velocity of a target if you open the settings and tick a box under the tab called columns. Angular velocity is used to determine the penalty to the hit chance based on the turret's tracking ability. Relying on high angular velocities to stay alive is called speed tanking (not to be mixed up with kiting, which is to keep something at range). If an enemy is orbiting you, it is possible to use special maneuvers (like keep at range) or modules (like a web) to try to reduce the angular velocity, this will make it easier to hit an otherwise hard to track target.


The tracking part: All turrets measure tracking speed as a ''Turret tracking'', which describes how well a turret can cope with targets moving around the turret in circles (or how well the turret can cope with its own ship moving around the target in circles; as far as the equation is concerned, these are the same situation). Let's freeze the ''angular velocity'', meaning the ships are orbiting each other at a constant speed. In the tracking term we also have a ''40000 meters'' term (a true constant) and ''target signature radius'' (which is usually constant except when any effects that affect [[signature radius]] are applied or removed). The result: a fixed number divided by ''turret tracking''.
Angular velocity is calculated as ω=v<sub>t</sub>/d, where v<sub>t</sub> is tranversal velocity of the target relative to shooter and d is distance to target. The shooter and target will both have same angular velocity to each other.


The range part: Being inside optimal never incurs a hit penalty, so we must move out into falloff ranges to see any changes in the to-hit equation's output values. Lets freeze everything apart from ''falloff.'' The result: a fixed number divided by ''falloff.''
===Target Signature Radius===
Every ship is treated as a sphere when they are being shot at. The target signature radius describes how big this sphere is. This is only important when a turret needs to track the target. It has no impact on range.


Did you see what they have in common? In the tracking term, we now have ''something''/''Turret tracking'', in the range term we have ''something''/''falloff''. In both cases there is a value that is divided by the variable we were interested in. There is an important insight here: tracking and falloff behave identically. Also, they are not fixed limits, they become ratios that describes how quickly you lose hit chance as you start to push range and orbiting speeds. Also, the hit chance loss is gradual.
Target signature radius is visible in ship fitting window. It is modified by modules, hull bonuses and incoming target painters.


{{expansion past | The "Turret Tracking" attribute in the formula used to be split into "Turret Tracking" and "Turret Signature Resolution". Combining them to single mumber simplified the formula without changing any mechanics. If you need to calculate turret hit chance with "Turret Signature Resolution" (for example using old NPC attribute info) just replace 40000 with "Turret Signature Resolution"}}
{{expansion past | The "Turret Tracking" attribute in the formula used to be split into "Turret Tracking" and "Turret Signature Resolution". Combining them to single mumber simplified the formula without changing any mechanics. If you need to calculate turret hit chance with "Turret Signature Resolution" (for example using old NPC attribute info) just replace 40000 with "Turret Signature Resolution"}}


==Damage==
==Damage==
All turrets have a base damage, this is a fixed number. The volley damage that your turrets do will be spread around this number. The higher the number the more damage the turret will do when it hits. It is calculated from the turret's Damage Multiplier attribute, the ammo's damage values and skills. This is before any resistances are taken into consideration. A high base damage means that your guns hit hard (but do not mistake this for DPS (damage per second). The base damage is always a bit below the average damage (about 1.5% lower) when there is a 100% hit chance because of the rare-but-powerful perfect hits.
All turrets have a base damage, which is a fixed number. The damage that a turret deal will be randomly spread around this value. The base damage is calculated from the turret's Damage Multiplier attribute, the ammo's damage values and the pilots skills.  


DPS stands for Damage Per Second. This number is calculated from the average damage per hit that you do (if your hit chance is 100%) divided by the turret's rate of fire (ROF). The fitting window in the game will show you your DPS from turrets, drones and missiles respectively.
DPS stands for Damage Per Second. This number is calculated from the average damage per hit that you do (if your hit chance is 100%) divided by the turret's rate of fire (ROF). The fitting window in the game will show you your DPS from turrets, drones and missiles respectively.


===Randomness of damage===
===Randomness of damage===
The damage from turrets always has a random factor in it, this is built into the game and can't be avoided. Under ideal conditions, when your hit chance is 100%, the damage done by your turrets will be inside an interval of 50% to 149% of your base damage with 1% chance of perfect 300% damage hit. However, things are different when your hit chance decreases. Not only will you have a chance to miss your target, which means no damage done. But also, the damage interval will change as well. That interval is actually from 50% but only up to (49%&nbsp;+ hit chance). So if your hit chance is 70%, not only will you miss a few shots, the shots that do hit are now in the damage interval of 50% to 119% with 1% chance of 300% damage. There are thus two simultaneous factors that reduce your damage when your chance to hit goes down.
At the heart of each turret's damage output is a single randomly generated value between 0 and 1 that is several digits long. This random number is used '''both''' to determine if the turret hits the target and then to determine how much damage that hit actually did. If the random number is less than 0.01 (1% chance) the hit is a perfect hit and deals 300% of the base damage. A funny result of this is that when the hit chance is 1% or less, only misses and perfect hits can occur.
 
===Perfect hits===
With any shot there is a 1% chance of doing a perfect hit. It is that first percent unit in the entire interval. Think of it as rolling a hundred-sided die; if it lands on a 1, you get a perfect hit regardless of the hit chance. This actually means that if your hit chance is a measly two percent, half of your hits will be perfect. If your hit chance is less than one percent, you must first get that hit, before it can become a perfect one. A perfect hit will always do exactly 300% of your base damage. Note that the 1% propability is for all shots including misses.
 
Perfect hits are not scored by 1% of the shots that can hit, but by 1% of all hits and misses taken together. This means that if your chance to hit is 1% or less, you will either hit perfectly or you will miss, with no normal hits.
 
===Damage distribution===
 
At the heart of a turret's damage output is a single randomly generated value between 0 and 1 that is several digits long. This random number is used '''both''' to determine if the turret hits the target and then to determine how much damage the hit actually did. If the random number is less than 0.01 (1% chance) the hit is perfect hit and deals 300% damage. If the hit chance is less than 1% this perfect hit can also miss and any non perfect hit will miss.


In non perfect hits the damage modifier of the shot is calculated with formula
The damage modifier of the shot is calculated with the following formula, the first 0.01 of the random number interval will be used for perfect hits with a damage modifier of x3:


Damage modifier = Random number[0,1] + 0.49
Damage modifier = Random number[0,1] + 0.49


The base damage is multiplied by this modifier to get the final damage. The result is that the turret can deal 50% - 149% of its damage in single non perfect hit. Also note that since the same random number is used for hit and damage calculations the possible damage range gets lower as hit chance lowers. At 70% hit chance the turret can deal 50% - 119% damage with non perfect hit.  
The base damage is multiplied by this modifier to get the final damage. A turret with a 100% chance to hit will strike for 50% - 149% of its base damage in every non perfect hit. Since the same random number is used for determining a hit and doing the damage calculations the damage interval also gets lower when the hit chance decreases. With a 70% hit chance a turrets damage interval is 50% - 119% of base damage with the non perfect hits, this means that the average damage done is not 70% but actually 59.8%.


The quality of the hit is also visible on combat log.
The quality of the hit is also visible on combat log.
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==Grouping guns, does it affect the damage?==
==Grouping guns, does it affect the damage?==
No. Even if the guns are grouped on your screen, they are still treated separately. This can be seen by collecting damage data and comparing that with the normal expected damage distribution, it's very clear that it's a combination of several separate turret shots instead of a single one. It can also be deduced by looking at the turret group's damage output when shooting at hard to hit objects, like things deep into falloff, it's possible to tell when one, two or more guns hit the target.
No. Even if the guns are grouped on your screen, they are still treated separately. This can be seen by collecting damage data and comparing that with the expected damage distribution, it's very clear that it's a combination of several separate turret shots instead of a single one. It can also be deduced by looking at the turret group's damage output when shooting at hard to hit objects, like things deep into falloff, it's then possible to tell when one, two or more guns hit the target.


==Combined effects of hit chance and damage distribution==
==Combined effects of hit chance and damage distribution==
note: Needs to be revised
When a turret has less than 100% chance to hit the damage is reduced in two different ways. The first and obvious one is that it sometimes misses, the other is that the max damage on normal hits (e.g. not perfect ones) are reduced as well. Both of these effects will decrease the DPS output.  
When a turret has less than 100% chance to hit the damage is reduced in two different ways. The first and obvious one is that it sometimes misses, the other is that the max damage on normal hits (e.g. not perfect ones) are reduced as well. Both of these effects will decrease the DPS output.  


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http://www.hostile.dk/files/eve/eve-tracking101.swf
http://www.hostile.dk/files/eve/eve-tracking101.swf
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/5h24bk/turrets_listed_signature_resolution_is_40km/


[[Category:Game mechanics]]
[[Category:Game mechanics]]