Archive Talk:Wartime Standard Operating Procedures

Where's the old WSOP that the comments below are talking about?

On April 4, 2013, most of the previous WSOP requirements became recommendations and were moved (with some rewording) to the page Tips For War.

Breaking the WarSOP?

In the Requests for Clarification section, it talks about "I screwed up with the WSOP. What can I expect?". Now that the WarSOP consists of "you can fly anything, but here are some tips" - what exactly is left that you can breach?!

Proposal to Add Caveat Emptor to WSOP

WSOP should begin with a prominent paragraph along the lines of: High security wars are serious and could easily lead to the loss of your ship and pod. It is YOUR responsibility to learn to protect yourself from being unwilling victims of the war targets. The University will not protect you, but it will teach you to protect yourself. These survival skills will be invaluable in EVE Online.

Explaination As an older noob player (Sophomore literally means wise fool), I see a disconnect between the new players entering the UNI after the most recent WSOP changes and the older corporation members from before. The older page used to innately convey that high security war are serious business with big red and green rules for what you can and cannot do. The new one gives no such indication that high sec war might be serious, or that you might die. Instead, only a few sections down it eventually casually links to our tips on how to survive during wartime. That page is a wall of text that even the most studious applicants are not going to read during the already thorough application process.

I fully support the new WSOP itself, but the current page needs to better address the needs of our newest players, who are just then applying to the UNI. By setting their expectations there, on a page they are supposed to read and summarize during the application process, I hope we can cut down on the proliferation of these threads.

Fleets

The rule on fleets is confusing because it includes part of the instruction (adding an advert for the fleet) as part of the annotations, which people won't always look at.

Suggestions

• Explicitly list the Venture frigate as an at risk mining vessel per Marius Labo's WSOP Clarifications game mail: 'And with regards to the new T1 ORE mining frigate Venture it is considered a mining vessel and therefore a "risk ship".'

• I'm not aware of a forum thread for discussing changes to wartime policies, so if this is the wrong place for ordinary Unistas to make suggestions, I apologize in advance.
  • I understand the reasoning for most of the wartime ship class prohibitions, but I was under the impression that some experienced Fleet Commanders liked having interceptors in warfleets, especially for rollin safespots. You may want to consider taking Interdictors off the prohibition list.
    • An interceptor is not an interdictor. Interdictor were prohibited as they do not really fit a role in a Uni fleet as we usually do not enter 0.0 and in non-bubble space it is just an extra expensive destroyer. Interceptors are allowed. -- Frood Frooster
  • "Rigs should not be fitted on frigates, destroyers or cruisers." This statement is vague. Depending upon intent, it should be changed to "The University allows, but strongly recommends against, fitting rigs to frigates, destroyers, or cruisers" or "Rigs are prohibited on frigates, destroyers, and cruisers".
    • "Trading while docked in a station, however moving items is prohibited." should be clarified to "Station Trading (that is, trading that does not require you to undock) is allowed. Using your University character to move items from one station to another is prohibited."
  • "Dropping from E-UNI during the war - there are no penalties this." <-- Change to "Dropping from E-UNI during the war and rejoining the University after the war is over - there are no penalties for this." --Seamus Donohue 07:17, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
    • Forum post is here! [1] Kelduum Revaan 19:33, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
      • The server and domain name recently changed. The new link can be found here. --Miranda Glade 13:01, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
        • And now that thread has been locked, so I presume the correct place for making suggestions is on this page. --Miranda Glade 00:04, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

• Explicitly add Orca to one of the ship categories? Yes, it's common sense, but I'm sure a rules lawyer would never try and argue that it wasn't technically in one of the categories... Heck, might as well add "Industrial Command Ship" to the Capital category, just in case someone has a Rorqual? Smoogle 04:14, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

• "Ships must be fully 'PvP fitted'. " Forum Link Broken. Maybe replace with this one https://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtopic.php?f=129&t=19111 Yokitte 03:24, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

• The WSOP contains a section on Promoted Activities. First item on the list is Fleet Operations. Yet, there is no link to the Fleet Operations During War Time policy page. I believe a link should be included. A precedent for this exists: The Wartime and Official ILN Operations Loot Policy, a similar extended policy information page, is linked from the WSOP page. --Miranda Glade 00:14, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

• Add information about the restricted areas pilots are not supposed to travel through or go to during war, specifically trade hubs that are referenced in the Eve-mail that Kelduum sends out at the beginning of most wars for those members who join mid wars or when an eve-mail does not go out. -- StrydeTaz

• "...war-target loot placed into the "Ivy League Navy" Hangar at the PTS or CBT stations in Aldrat." This is very confusing for new pilots, I had to ask several times where to place the war loot until someone finally explained how that particular hangar works. Some hint at this point would probably help a lot, like: "You won't have any access to this hanger, neither can you see anything what is in there. You can only drop the loot on that tab and receive a warning that you are not able to retrieve items dropped in that hangar. Do it anyway...

Default SOP

Suggestions for revisions for PI:

3. Missions, Ratting, Complexes, Exploration sites, deploying PI Command Centres, moving industrial products are prohibited in k-space.[3]

Non-Fleet Activities

Hey guys:

Take a second, and read bullet 3 and bullet 4 of Non-Fleet activities. I can easily see bullet 4 sounding like "Its ok to fly a cruiser or up, as long as I use warp core stabs." I don't think this was the intent of the bulletpoint....

LJ Chimera

Communications

 "1. Remember that no communication channels are ever 100% secure, so ensure that all information on
targets or fleet composition is limited to Corp and Alliance channels. Remember to mention the
formation of the fleet in the private Chat.E-UNI channel for any members who are logged in on alts."

Perhaps another clause could be added to the final sentence to emphasise that while the existence of a fleet can be mentioned in chat.e-uni, the destination/composition/departure time etc. should not be. The issue caused some confusion in chat.e-uni today, 25/07/10

Clompy

- From a Command.ILN conversation on 29 November 2010, Kyrlin clarified that the only channels to discuss disposition of UNI or enemy forces is in Fleet Chat or Teamspeak. Announcing formations of fleet in Chat.E-UNI during wartime might be a security hole. Suggest clarification. - Dimitri Grishenko 30/11/10

Scouting

"Scouting is the act of moving ahead of a fleet, providing intel as to the state of the next
location, or following the fleet one jumb behind, to identify any pursuing targets. Scouts must
fly a T2 Covert Ops Frigate with a Covert Ops Cloak only. Stealth bombers are not to be used as
scouts. Scouts must be attached to a fleet at all time - scouting solo is pointless - and scouts
do not engage in combat at any time, maintaining their cloak at all times. Because they should
never be visible, experienced scouts flying the relevant ship may use a Faction probe launcher
at their discretion."

- From a Command.ILN conversation on 30 November 2010, Kyrlin clarified that pilots may not be in space in a covops without a fleet, as doing so looks like you (the covops pilot) are running exploration sites and will get you removed from the uni for a breach of W(artime)SOP. Suggest edit to the language of the Wartime SOP to reflect this. - Dimitri Grishenko 30/11/10

- Based on the thread regarding the Privateer War at https://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=27151&hilit=scout&start=15, it is suggested that Faction probe launchers not be used. Consider clarifying. - Dimitri Grishenko 30/11/10

ILN BG2 Wiki Updates

• This page has been worked on as part of the ILN BG2 Wiki Updates Project --Miranda Glade 12:59, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Typo

Minor typo to correct. "Scouting is the act of moving ahead of a fleet, providing intel as to the state of the next location, or following the fleet one jumb behind, to identify any pursuing targets." It should be "jump" not "jumb". -Silvonus

...Mining Ships

This is any ship which has a bonusses related to mining, barring the cruiser class[17], such as:

Should be bonuses, word as-is is a German genitive singular form. Or a typo... --Hong Hu

List Format

Current

...every chance we get, while still meeting the University's educational goals by teaching students how to fight hisec wars. To that end, the SOP is intended to:

• Deny the enemy easy kills of helpless non-combat ships.
• Deny the enemy easy kills of poorly-fitted ships.
• Deny the enemy any kills of high-value ships that will look good on his killboard.
• Deny the enemy any chance to banter or smack talk with us.
• Deny the enemy any enjoyment from the conflict.

Suggestion/Change to

Deny the Enemy...

• ...easy kills of helpless non-combat ships.
• ...easy kills of poorly-fitted ships.
• ...any kills of high-value ships that will look good on their killboard.
• ...any chance to banter or smack talk with us.
• ...any enjoyment from the conflict.

Removes redundant sentence start and draws attention to the key point. Improves reading flow and clarity. --Hong Hu

Clarification

...travelling

Travelling is moving with no cargo (opposed to hauling) and is only[3] allowed in 'Fast Frigate' class ships, Shuttles and Starter Frigates[4]. There is no requirement that you must travel toward HQ.

For clarity maybe preface "Fast Frigates" as "T1 Fast Frigates" so as to help those who might assume T2 interceptors and AF's are included and not actually check the 'Fast Frigate' page.

--Hong Hu

Minor corrections

"...Mining Ships

This is any ship which has a bonusses related to mining, barring the cruiser class[17], such as:"

should read "These are ships that have" and either "a bonus related to mining" or "bonuses related to mining".

Similar issues exist with "...Haulers", "...rare or unique ships" and "...capital ships".

<half-joking>Hmmm... can I just be the grammar pedant / proofreader?</half-joking>

at least two requirements for WH fleets?

Article says:

"...run Wormhole Operations You may run combat sites in wormholes during wartime[52]. All the other guidelines still apply however, so fleets should be combat fitted and have at least two E-UNI members. A cloaked scout (either covert ops or picket) should stay at the exit to known-space[53]."

Since that rule fell, can it be removed here as well ( WSOP writing style and consistency keeps being confusing )

Looting and Salvaging Policy

My proposed change to the Loot from war targets section of the Wartime Standard Operating Procedures page is below. The name of this section would change to Wartime Looting and Salvaging. Along with this change I propose to delete the Wartime and Official ILN Operations Loot Policy page. This change will consolidate the Wartime loot policy to one place, and make it easier for new pilots to find and understand. This modification does not change anything inherent to the policy in this edit, it simply cleans it up a little.

Proposed Change:

Wartime Looting and Salvaging

General Loot Policy

• Nothing in this SOP removes the general Looting and Salvaging restrictions in the EVE University Rules.

Loot from War Targets

• All loot and salvage from 'war targets' (and only war targets) is considered property of the Logistics Department. The closest pilot to the wreck has permission to loot and salvage. This loot should be passed to a tanked ship to return to HQ. If you are found to be stealing you will be punished.
• Note, theft of loot from our war target wrecks by out of Corp alts is not permitted. Any Eve University member using an out of Corp alt to steal from Eve University wrecks for personal profit will be considered to have committed Corp theft.

During a Fleet

• Frigates and small craft close to the wreck will loot/salvage it as quickly as possible. They will then pass the loot to the Fleet Commander or designated pilot.
• The Fleet Commander or designated pilot will then dock to store loot in safe location until it can be moved back to HQ.
• Note, It is required that all members of the University try to return objects looted from Uni losses to their original owner.

After a Fleet

• Optional: Fleet Commanders may use killboard values to split up loot so that people who lost a ship get at least some loot to help cover their loss (up to the price of the ship). Loot distribution is also authorized to cover the cost of fuel used during the fleet. This process may be conducted by the Fleet Commander or their designated representative, but the Fleet Commander is responsible for ensuring fairness. Fleet Commanders may show preference to ship types, but not to individual pilots.
• Required: Any remaining loot (or all loot if you skipped loss/fuel reimbursement) is to be placed in the War Loot container in the Alpha Hangar at HQ. If you feel it is not safe to return the loot to Aldrat, create an item exchange contract to "reimbursement manager" from where you are.

--Sam Note 18:12, 10 January 2014 (UTC)