Talk:Implants

Incorrect sum for High-Grade Rapture implant

The sum for the High-Grade Rapture implant set on the page seems completely wrong.

The set is supposed to reduce the recharge time by a certain percentage.

Neither my own calculation, nor Pyfa, nor ingame-simulator nor actual application of the set in the game yields anywhere near 50% reduction of recharge time. The actual effective value is somewhere around 41.6%. It is a huge difference multiplying the recharge delta by about 1.72 or multiply it by more than 2.15 as the website here would imply.

Especially with a set which costs 10 billion to acquire, this can prompt players to waste huge amounts of money, since regular or casual players (non-power-gamers) have no chance to verify the effect strength before actually acquiring the full set, thereby many are influenced by the intel given here - especially since Pyfa is known to be wrong on many borderline cases and ingame doesn't offer any way to simulate implants or derive the formula of an implant sets module groups self-interaction without running tests first. The value table should be corrected, since it has probably already caused more damage than most other articles here possibly could. -- Skeltek (talk} 09:06, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Could you supply the calculation you have used and the numbers you have found, please? It would be helpful for those responding to your post. -- Evon R'al (talk) 10:43, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

EVE mail received:

Question reqgarding the Rapture implant set on eve university page

From: UNDEADLI

Sent: 2023.11.18 10:30

To: Evon R'al,

The rapture implant set calculation is wrong.

The 53.63 of the high grade is aquire as 1.03*1.06*1.12*1.15*1.09.

But since it actually reduce time needed to fully recharge. It is actully calculated as 1-0.97*0.94*0.88*0.85*0.91.

We get a reduction in recharge time of around 38%.

This reflect what pyfa simulation shows, where a empty fully skilled retribution has its rechrage time reduce from 141s to 87s, a roughly 38% reduction.

The actually recharge formular is bit more complex, so it is hard for me to calculat to peak recahrge rate, but we could assume the average recharge rate would increase by about 61%.

Aquired simpy by (1)/(1-0.38)

Changed Secondary Effect from "Capacitor regeneration speed" to "Capacitor recharge time" and made the percentages negative. Put a strike trough on the Total Effect for now. -- Evon R'al (talk) 12:36, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

UNDEADLI's and mine results for calculating the Total Effect initially differed. Caused by me wrongly interpretating how the set bonus should be applied. After explanation by UNDEADLI and reading CCP's support article about implants which says "Some Implants are part of an implant set, providing a set bonus with each additional implant of the same set plugged in." I agree with UNDEADLI and updated the Total Effect fields. -- Evon R'al (talk) 15:39, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for reacting to this. Sorry for late reply; I'm not really a eveuniversity power user. My calculation for the high grade set is essentially what UNDEADLY answered and as follows. We assume raw implant bonuses shown in game are not rounded and round the calculation at end to minimize power based oom error accumulation.

The total modifier m for the secondary effects is calculated m= 1.15^5 * 1.5 = 3.01703578125 with secondary effects alpha through gamma of alpha=1-m*0.01, beta=1-m*0.02, gamma=1-m*0.03, delta=1-m*0.04, epsilon=1-m*0.05, gamma=1-m*0.00=1.

alpha = 1- 0.0301703578125 = 0.9698296421875

beta = 1- 0.060340715625 = 0.939659284375

gamma = 1- 0.0905110734375 = 0.9094889265625

delta = 1- 0.12068143125 = 0.87931856875

epsilon = 1- 0.1508517890625 = 0.8491482109375

gamma = 1-0 = 1

total recharge time multiplier = alpha*beta*gamma*delta*epsiplon*gamma = 0.61886086792552306245615800849058 := 0.6189

-> recharge time reduction = 1-0.6189 = 0.3811 = 38.11%

that equals charge/s modifier of 1/0.6189 = 1.6159 resulting in a 61.59% increase of cap/s gained.

Like UNDEADLI pointed out in the Reply Mail, the actual formula is a bit more complicated, but the calculation shows the difference between assuming the bonus to be a reduction of recharge time or an increase in charge gained -> the aproximately 62% cap/s increase is far(!) from the 115% cap/s increase, which the originally stated value on this wiki had implied. It may very well explain the insane price of nearly 10 billion which the implant set used to be sold for. -- Skeltek (talk} 18:30, 28 November 2023 (UTC)