Archive:Logistic Guide: Difference between revisions

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~~{{Work in Progress}}~~

* This page has a workbench section containing bulk information contributed by other members. Feel free to assist in simplifying / edditing appropriate information and transfering it back to here. The focus for this page is currently on readibility and target audience (Eve Uni Students). Technical specifics are secondary at this point.

* The Work Bench Page Can be found here: [[Logistic Guide Workbench]]

~~[[Category:Guides]]~~

~~[[Category:PvP]]~~

~~[[Category:Ships]]~~

~~==Introduction==~~

Logistic cruisers are designed to remotely repair friendly ships. They can be used both in PvE and PvP fleets. They require a fair amount of training and thus are usually out of reach for most young combat pilots. This guide provides general tactics for Logistic pilots.

~~There are four logistic cruisers two repair shields and two repair armor. The four logistic cruisers are further subdivided into the categories of co-op logistics or solo logistics.~~

~~===Co-op Logistics===~~

~~:[[Guardian]] and [[Basilisk]]:~~

::Co-op logistic ships have six high slots, recieve a bonus to cap transfer modules and are best fitted with large remote armor repair or large shield transfer modules. They are not cap stable alone and have to utilize cap transfer modules with another logi ship to be cap stable. They are best utilized in large fleet engagements repairing battle cruisers and battleship sized friendlies.

~~===Solo Logistics===~~

~~:[[Scimitar]] and [[Oneiros]]:~~

::Solo logistics ship have a more balanced midslot layout, less powergrid, but significantly higher capacitor potential. They receive a bonuses to tracking links, potentially increasing effective DPS on fleet targets. They are best utilized in small skirmish fleets fitted with medium repair modules for use on frigate and cruiser sized ships where the smaller sig radius helps compensate for lower repping power.

~~===T1 Logistics===~~

~~:[[Osprey]] and [[Exequror]]~~

:: While not as useful as their T2 counterparts, these ships make excellent training vessels for newer pilots. The [[Osprey]], a shield repper, and the [[Exequror]], an armor repper, are best utilized with micro shield transfer arrays and small remote armor repairs, respectively, and fielded to compliment cheap T1 frigates and cruisers. These ships also see a lot of service in the emergency repair of Player Owned Structures and stations due to their cheap costs and low skill requirements, enabling a corp or alliance to have every member available to quickly restore a damaged structure.

~~==Why Fly Logistics?==~~

So you're curious about flying a logistics ship! Great! Logistic ships can potentially turn the tide of any battle, allow a smaller fleet to decimate a larger one, save player owned structures, and generally gain the respect and instant love of everyone in your fleet. Flying a logistics ship will give you a perspective of fleet combat usually only noticed by a fleet commander (in respect to the health and status of his own fleet). You will also begin to develop a keen ability to multi task, juggling reps between multiple targets, flying your ship to stay alive and keeping track of the status of the battle you're engaged in.

~~Things to keep in mind about logistics play: ~~

* Logistics are not for kill mail junkies. If you're a dedicated logistics pilot truly doing their job you can go a month or more without ever getting onto a kill mail, but you and your fleet mates know you're an important part of their success as a team.

* You need to be prepaired to lose your ship every time you undock. Logistics boats are constantly primaried in every engagement they are spotted in, and are often exploded. If your corporation has a ship replacement program, check to see how often and under what circumstances their reimbursment policy takes effect and stick to it. If not, have your income in order to be able to replace your ships at 150 million isk a pop.

* Logistics Ships are skill Intensive: The training time to get into and properly fly a logistics ship can easily take four to six months for a new player. Many of the skills do not translate well to direct combat, potentially hurting your income potential from missioning / ratting. Logistics skills in no way translate to industry skills. Because of this most pilots don't start cross training into logistics untill they have their heavy assult, battle cruiser, or battleship skills in order for income purposes.

* Try it out before you decide to train for it: There are two T1 cruisers available to test the waters for logistics ships. If you want to give it a go early in your career, or test the waters before putting in for the intensive skill plan, grab one and use them in the mass t1 frigate or cruiser fleets. You won't keep too many ships alive, but you could make a big difference in the usually short life of the fast tacklers. Try them out! The T1 rep hero ships are the [[Osprey]] and [[Exequror]].

~~==Logistics Quick Start - Go Go Go!==~~

~~So, you've read all the warnings and are still wanting to try it eh? Go and grab an [[Osprey]] or [[Exequror]]: ~~

~~{{:Osprey/Fittings/Logistics/PvP}} {{:Exequror/Fittings/Logistics}}~~

~~===Find a low end fleet===~~

~~:...Preferably one of the t1 frigate roams as you will have the potential for success there. ~~

~~Don't worry about your overview settings at this point, just make sure you have your overview setup for PVP and your broadcast window open.~~

* Tell your FC in fleet chat that you're in a T1 logistics ship. Follow their instructions (if any).

* Stay with the fleet and fly your ship in formation as you would any other ship. You're not THAT special. (orbit gates, orbit primaries, align, etc.)

* Add your fleet commander, any other logistics ships, and a few of your friends to your watch list. You can lock them up to apply reps from this window if they take damage.

* Keep your broadcast window open. Rep anyone who broadcasts "Need Armor" or "Need Shields." In low end fleets logis are few and far between. Any reps will make a difference.

* Find someone to orbit - Sometimes the best thing to do is to Orbit the primary target like everyone else, just do it at about 13-15km.

* Use your repair drones! You have to tell them to "attack" your friendly target to get them to rep.

* Use your ECM drones! Put them on the primary target or highest enemy DPS ship on grid.

* Set Combat Drones to assist another pilot. They will follow shooting commands from them and it will be one less thing to worry about.

* Laugh Really Hard when you get blown up. It's going to happen. ^.^

~~==Logi Channel==~~

Once you've joined a fleet, ask for the logi channel. The logi channel is used to give information to logi pilots they may require. Not all fleets will use a logi channel. They're more common for PvP fleets that use guardians or basilisks, and for incursion fleets that have more than three logistic ships.

Hopefully the logi channel has a Logistic Coordinator that will tell all logi pilots what they need to know. Some fleets will not have a designated logi coordinator. In this case, hopefully one of the experienced logi pilots will step up to guide the rookies.

~~The logi channel can be used for the following information:~~

* Who is the logi anchor (if different than the rest of the fleet's anchor), and orbit range.

* Who should be on the watch list.

* Provide warp-ins for logi pilots that have just joined fleet, or missed warps, etc.

* How the cap chain should be set up.

* Where you should be aligned (prop mod on or off, full speed or 3/4 speed).

* Current orders. Sometimes the logis should follow different orders from the rest of the fleet.

* Catch the attention of logi pilots not doing what they should be doing. Linking their name by drag-and-drop from the channel list can help. If they still don't respond, do the same in the fleet channel and remind them to read logi chat.

The cap chain can be sorted either through the logi channel member list or through the overview. The cap chain is usually set up to be two down, or one up one down. If your corp, alliance, or coalition does not have a fixed rule for this, you should always ask in the logi channel which sorting and cap chain methods are being used.

Channels are sometimes bugged and you will appear to be in the channel but will not be able to see what anyone else types. If you don't see anyone else typing in the logi channel, ask if anyone can read what you type, then rejoin the channel if no one responds. This is sometimes a persistent bug that requires leaving and re-joining the channel several times to fix.

~~==Watch List==~~

The FC or Logi Coordinator will sometimes tell you who you should have on your watch list. Sometimes he won't if he's too busy. If you are in a guardian or basilisk, you should have the people you should be cap transferring on your watch list at least. If you're in a small gang, you may want all the other logi pilots on your watch list.

Other ships that you may want to have on watch list: The fleet commander (both the actual FC and the person holding FC position if they aren't the same), wing commanders, the fleet booster, recon tacklers (huginn, rapier, lachesis, arazu) and sometimes T3 recon configured Proteus and Loki, some ECM ships such as scorpions.

Ask in the logi channel who you should have on your watch list. You can add people to your watch list by right clicking their name in a chat channel or the overview, and going through the menu: Fleet > Add to watch list. Or through the fleet member list in the fleet window, right click a name > add to watch list.

~~Fleet members taking damage will blink red in your watch list. You can instantly lock them by control-clicking their name in the watch list.~~

==Overview==

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# Save the preset as '''9B - Blue Logi'''

This '''Blue Logi''' overview preset will show all blue logistic ships on grid, not just those in your fleet. It is not possible to set up an overview preset that would only shows fleeted logi pilots.

This '''Blue Logi''' overview preset will show all blue logistic ships on grid, not just those in your fleet. It is not possible to set up an overview preset that would only shows fleeted logi pilots. However this only shows T2 logi, not T1.

===Blue Caps===

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Line 49:

# Save the preset as '''9C - Blue Caps'''

~~==Cap Transfer==~~

The cap chain helps keep Guardians and Basilisks cap stable. Pilots with sufficient skills will generate cap in the chain, since the energy transfer modules will require less cap to activate than it will transfer to the target.

If you are in an Oneiros or Scimitar, you should not be depending on cap transfers. These ships are usually set up to be cap stable on their own at the cost of less repping power, or sometimes using cap boosters to maintain more reps for a limited amount of time.

If you are in a Guardian or Basilisk, you should be cap stable when receiving two cap transfers if you have the skill Logistics 4, and one cap transfer of you have Logistics 5. Each logi pilot should transfer cap to two other logi pilots, even if those who receive cap have logi 5. This insures redundancy in combat situations where the cap chain is often broken when ships are neuted, ECM jammed, or destroyed. Some fleets that have all logi pilots with Logistics 5 and veteran logi pilots that are good at multitasking will only transfer to one other logi pilot in the chain and will take cap requests during combat.

===Cap Direction===

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Line 109:

* Warrior: Warriors are the light scout drones of choice for their speed and damage type which is good against T1 armor tankers and many T2 ships that have enhanced resists. These can be especially useful against light ships, such as interdictors and various tacklers, that come withing drone control range.

~~==Lag==~~

During heavy lag, remote armor repair and shield transporters must be cycled manually. Do do this, each module must be set to auto-cycle off. The modules must be activated and then manually deactivated before being activated again. If auto cycle is left on, or if the modules are not forcibly deactivated, the modules will appear to cycle properly but will fail to repair beyond the first cycle.

~~Remote energy transfer can be left on auto cycle for the cap chain, as heavy lag is usually accompanied by infinite cap.~~

~~==Positioning & Range Control==~~

~~[...]~~

~~==Heavy Interdictors==~~

~~[...]~~

~~==Capital Ships==~~

~~[...]~~

~~==Incursion==~~

~~[...]~~

~~==Related Links==~~

~~===UniWiki===~~

* [[Logistics Ships 101]] - Class Curriculum

* [[Guide to Logistics]]

* [[Overview Guide]]

===Video===

* [~~http~~://~~www~~.~~eveonline.com~~/~~ingameboard.asp~~?~~a=topic&threadID~~=~~1342627~~ Ironclad] - A Rooks and Kings video detailing logistic and triage carrier tactics.

* [https://youtu.be/j4hPTGN3Q6w?list=PLo1eELyNWdOXizh7sJac6z2ldzMqPwXoC Ironclad] - A Rooks and Kings video detailing logistic and triage carrier tactics.

* [http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1288092 Double Edged] - A Pandemic Legion video in two parts with logistic footage.

===Other===

* [http://~~altruist~~.~~azual~~.~~co.uk~~/2011/10/know-your-enemy-logistics.html~~#more~~ Know Your Enemy - Logistics] - Article on The Altruist blog by Azual Skoll.

* [http://www.evealtruist.com/2011/10/know-your-enemy-logistics.html Know Your Enemy - Logistics] - Article on The Altruist blog by Azual Skoll.

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-{{Cleanup}}
+{{historical}}
-{{Work in Progress}}
-* This page has a workbench section containing bulk information contributed by other members.  Feel free to assist in simplifying / edditing appropriate information and transfering it back to here. The focus for this page is currently on readibility and target audience (Eve Uni Students).  Technical specifics are secondary at this point.
-* The Work Bench Page Can be found here: [[Logistic Guide Workbench]]
-[[Category:Guides]]
-[[Category:PvP]]
-[[Category:Ships]]
-==Introduction==
-Logistic cruisers are designed to remotely repair friendly ships. They can be used both in PvE and PvP fleets. They require a fair amount of training and thus are usually out of reach for most young combat pilots. This guide provides general tactics for Logistic pilots.<br><br>
-There are four logistic cruisers two repair shields and two repair armor. The four logistic cruisers are further subdivided into the categories of co-op logistics or solo logistics.
-===Co-op Logistics===
-:[[Guardian]] and [[Basilisk]]:
-::Co-op logistic ships have six high slots, recieve a bonus to cap transfer modules and are best fitted with large remote armor repair or large shield transfer modules.  They are not cap stable alone and have to utilize cap transfer modules with another logi ship to be cap stable.  They are best utilized in large fleet engagements repairing battle cruisers and battleship sized friendlies.
-===Solo Logistics===
-:[[Scimitar]] and [[Oneiros]]:
-::Solo logistics ship have a more balanced midslot layout, less powergrid, but significantly higher capacitor potential.  They receive a bonuses to tracking links, potentially increasing effective DPS on fleet targets.  They are best utilized in small skirmish fleets fitted with medium repair modules for use on frigate and cruiser sized ships where the smaller sig radius helps compensate for lower repping power.
-===T1 Logistics===
-:[[Osprey]] and [[Exequror]]
-:: While not as useful as their T2 counterparts, these ships make excellent training vessels for newer pilots. The [[Osprey]], a shield repper, and the [[Exequror]], an armor repper, are best utilized with micro shield transfer arrays and small remote armor repairs, respectively, and fielded to compliment cheap T1 frigates and cruisers. These ships also see a lot of service in the emergency repair of Player Owned Structures and stations due to their cheap costs and low skill requirements, enabling a corp or alliance to have every member available to quickly restore a damaged structure.<br><br>
-==Why Fly Logistics?==
-So you're curious about flying a logistics ship!  Great!  Logistic ships can potentially turn the tide of any battle, allow a smaller fleet to decimate a larger one, save player owned structures, and generally gain the respect and instant love of everyone in your fleet.  Flying a logistics ship will give you a perspective of fleet combat usually only noticed by a fleet commander (in respect to the health and status of his own fleet).  You will also begin to develop a keen ability to multi task, juggling reps between multiple targets, flying your ship to stay alive and keeping track of the status of the battle you're engaged in.<br><br>
-Things to keep in mind about logistics play:<br><br>
-* Logistics are not for kill mail junkies.  If you're a dedicated logistics pilot truly doing their job you can go a month or more without ever getting onto a kill mail, but you and your fleet mates know you're an important part of their success as a team.  <br><br>
-* You need to be prepaired to lose your ship every time you undock.  Logistics boats are constantly primaried in every engagement they are spotted in, and are often exploded.  If your corporation has a ship replacement program, check to see how often and under what circumstances their reimbursment policy takes effect and stick to it.  If not, have your income in order to be able to replace your ships at 150 million isk a pop.<br><br>
-* Logistics Ships are skill Intensive: <br><br> The training time to get into and properly fly a logistics ship can easily take four to six months for a new player.  Many of the skills do not translate well to direct combat, potentially hurting your income potential from missioning / ratting.  Logistics skills in no way translate to industry skills.  Because of this most pilots don't start cross training into logistics untill they have their heavy assult, battle cruiser, or battleship skills in order for income purposes.<br><br>
-* Try it out before you decide to train for it:<br><br>  There are two T1 cruisers available to test the waters for logistics ships.  If you want to give it a go early in your career, or test the waters before putting in for the intensive skill plan, grab one and use them in the mass t1 frigate or cruiser fleets.  You won't keep too many ships alive, but you could make a big difference in the usually short life of the fast tacklers.<br><br>  Try them out!  The T1 rep hero ships are the [[Osprey]] and [[Exequror]].<br><br>
-==Logistics Quick Start - Go Go Go!==
-So, you've read all the warnings and are still wanting to try it eh?  Go and grab an [[Osprey]] or [[Exequror]]: <br>
-{{:Osprey/Fittings/Logistics/PvP}} {{:Exequror/Fittings/Logistics}}
-===Find a low end fleet===
-:...Preferably one of the t1 frigate roams as you will have the potential for success there.<br><br>
-Don't worry about your overview settings at this point, just make sure you have your overview setup for PVP and your broadcast window open.
-* Tell your FC in fleet chat that you're in a T1 logistics ship.  Follow their instructions (if any).
-* Stay with the fleet and fly your ship in formation as you would any other ship.  You're not THAT special.  (orbit gates, orbit primaries, align, etc.)
-* Add your fleet commander, any other logistics ships, and a few of your friends to your watch list.  You can lock them up to apply reps from this window if they take damage.
-* Keep your broadcast window open. Rep anyone who broadcasts "Need Armor" or "Need Shields."  In low end fleets logis are few and far between.  Any reps will make a difference.
-* Find someone to orbit - Sometimes the best thing to do is to Orbit the primary target like everyone else, just do it at about 13-15km.
-* Use your repair drones!  You have to tell them to "attack" your friendly target to get them to rep.
-* Use your ECM drones!  Put them on the primary target or highest enemy DPS ship on grid.
-* Set Combat Drones to assist another pilot.  They will follow shooting commands from them and it will be one less thing to worry about.
-* Laugh Really Hard when you get blown up.  It's going to happen.  ^.^ <br><br>
-==Logi Channel==
-Once you've joined a fleet, ask for the logi channel. The logi channel is used to give information to logi pilots they may require. Not all fleets will use a logi channel. They're more common for PvP fleets that use guardians or basilisks, and for incursion fleets that have more than three logistic ships.
-Hopefully the logi channel has a Logistic Coordinator that will tell all logi pilots what they need to know. Some fleets will not have a designated logi coordinator. In this case, hopefully one of the experienced logi pilots will step up to guide the rookies.
-The logi channel can be used for the following information:
-* Who is the logi anchor (if different than the rest of the fleet's anchor), and orbit range.
-* Who should be on the watch list.
-* Provide warp-ins for logi pilots that have just joined fleet, or missed warps, etc.
-* How the cap chain should be set up.
-* Where you should be aligned (prop mod on or off, full speed or 3/4 speed).
-* Current orders. Sometimes the logis should follow different orders from the rest of the fleet.
-* Catch the attention of logi pilots not doing what they should be doing. Linking their name by drag-and-drop from the channel list can help. If they still don't respond, do the same in the fleet channel and remind them to read logi chat.
-The cap chain can be sorted either through the logi channel member list or through the overview. The cap chain is usually set up to be two down, or one up one down. If your corp, alliance, or coalition does not have a fixed rule for this, you should always ask in the logi channel which sorting and cap chain methods are being used.
-Channels are sometimes bugged and you will appear to be in the channel but will not be able to see what anyone else types. If you don't see anyone else typing in the logi channel, ask if anyone can read what you type, then rejoin the channel if no one responds. This is sometimes a persistent bug that requires leaving and re-joining the channel several times to fix.
-==Watch List==
-The FC or Logi Coordinator will sometimes tell you who you should have on your watch list. Sometimes he won't if he's too busy. If you are in a guardian or basilisk, you should have the people you should be cap transferring on your watch list at least. If you're in a small gang, you may want all the other logi pilots on your watch list.
-Other ships that you may want to have on watch list: The fleet commander (both the actual FC and the person holding FC position if they aren't the same), wing commanders, the fleet booster, recon tacklers (huginn, rapier, lachesis, arazu) and sometimes T3 recon configured Proteus and Loki, some ECM ships such as scorpions.
-Ask in the logi channel who you should have on your watch list. You can add people to your watch list by right clicking their name in a chat channel or the overview, and going through the menu: Fleet > Add to watch list. Or through the fleet member list in the fleet window, right click a name > add to watch list.
-Fleet members taking damage will blink red in your watch list. You can instantly lock them by control-clicking their name in the watch list.
 ==Overview==
@@ Line 121: / Line 32: @@
 # Save the preset as '''9B - Blue Logi'''
-This '''Blue Logi''' overview preset will show all blue logistic ships on grid, not just those in your fleet. It is not possible to set up an overview preset that would only shows fleeted logi pilots.
+This '''Blue Logi''' overview preset will show all blue logistic ships on grid, not just those in your fleet. It is not possible to set up an overview preset that would only shows fleeted logi pilots. However this only shows T2 logi, not T1.
 ===Blue Caps===
@@ Line 138: / Line 49: @@
 # Save the preset as '''9C - Blue Caps'''
-==Cap Transfer==
-The cap chain helps keep Guardians and Basilisks cap stable. Pilots with sufficient skills will generate cap in the chain, since the energy transfer modules will require less cap to activate than it will transfer to the target.
-If you are in an Oneiros or Scimitar, you should not be depending on cap transfers. These ships are usually set up to be cap stable on their own at the cost of less repping power, or sometimes using cap boosters to maintain more reps for a limited amount of time.
-If you are in a Guardian or Basilisk, you should be cap stable when receiving two cap transfers if you have the skill Logistics 4, and one cap transfer of you have Logistics 5. Each logi pilot should transfer cap to two other logi pilots, even if those who receive cap have logi 5. This insures redundancy in combat situations where the cap chain is often broken when ships are neuted, ECM jammed, or destroyed. Some fleets that have all logi pilots with Logistics 5 and veteran logi pilots that are good at multitasking will only transfer to one other logi pilot in the chain and will take cap requests during combat.
 ===Cap Direction===
@@ Line 205: / Line 109: @@
 * Warrior: Warriors are the light scout drones of choice for their speed and damage type which is good against T1 armor tankers and many T2 ships that have enhanced resists. These can be especially useful against light ships, such as interdictors and various tacklers, that come withing drone control range.
-==Lag==
-During heavy lag, remote armor repair and shield transporters must be cycled manually. Do do this, each module must be set to auto-cycle off. The modules must be activated and then manually deactivated before being activated again. If auto cycle is left on, or if the modules are not forcibly deactivated, the modules will appear to cycle properly but will fail to repair beyond the first cycle.
-Remote energy transfer can be left on auto cycle for the cap chain, as heavy lag is usually accompanied by infinite cap.
-==Positioning & Range Control==
-[...]
-==Heavy Interdictors==
-[...]
-==Capital Ships==
-[...]
-==Incursion==
-[...]
-==Related Links==
-===UniWiki===
-* [[Logistics Ships 101]] - Class Curriculum
-* [[Guide to Logistics]]
-* [[Overview Guide]]
 ===Video===
-* [http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1342627 Ironclad] - A Rooks and Kings video detailing logistic and triage carrier tactics.
+* [https://youtu.be/j4hPTGN3Q6w?list=PLo1eELyNWdOXizh7sJac6z2ldzMqPwXoC Ironclad] - A Rooks and Kings video detailing logistic and triage carrier tactics.
-* [http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1288092 Double Edged] - A Pandemic Legion video in two parts with logistic footage.
 ===Other===
-* [http://altruist.azual.co.uk/2011/10/know-your-enemy-logistics.html#more Know Your Enemy - Logistics] - Article on The Altruist blog by Azual Skoll.
+* [http://www.evealtruist.com/2011/10/know-your-enemy-logistics.html Know Your Enemy - Logistics] - Article on The Altruist blog by Azual Skoll.