Turret damage: Difference between revisions

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What about tracking? Well, if traversal speed = 0, the tracking term evaluates to zero. So getting your target to come straight at you is super if you can do it. If he won't do that, the best way to minimize this term is some combination of: keep the target at '''longer''' range, lower the traversal speed, increase your turret's tracking speed, and/or increase the target's signature radius. That's range, webs, tracking computers, and target painters, in concrete terms. You can also choose 'keep at range' on a target to minimize the traversal -- though bear in mind that your target will be able to hit you more easily, too. Note that as range gets smaller, approaching 0, the tracking term inflates toward infinity if there's any traversal speed at all -- so your chance to hit plummets toward zero.

=Turret damage ~~numbers~~=

=Turret damage dealing=

==Random damage distribution==

At the heart of a turrets damage output is a single randomly generated value between 0 and 1 that is several digits long, something like 0.317226. This random number is used both to determine if the turret hits the target and also to determine how much damage the hit actually does. Should the randomly generated number be less than 0.01 (1% chance), it will be a perfect hit (aka wrecking), this kind of hit always deal exactly three times the base damage. The thing about perfect hits is that they always occur as long as that random number was lower than 0.01 and at the same time lower than the hit chance. So perfect hits are not scored by 1% of the shots that hits, its scored 1% of all hits and misses taken together. This means that if your chance to hit is 1% or below, you can only do perfect hits. Most shots will be misses of course, but those that do hit, they will be perfect.

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***X = Random (0 to 1)

**Calculating raw damage

***If (X < 0.01) Then RAW DAMAGE = 3 * Turret Base Damage ''(these are called perfect or wrecking hits)''

***If (X < 0.01 and X < Hit Chance) Then RAW DAMAGE = 3 * Turret Base Damage ''(these are called perfect or wrecking hits)''

***Else If (X < Hit Chance) Then RAW DAMAGE = (X + 0.49) * Turret Base Damage ''(these are normal hits)''

***Else RAW DAMAGE = 0 ''(this is a miss)''

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The formulas used to calculate this table were:

*Chance to Hit: 0.5^(0+(Falloff parts / ~~100%~~)^2)

*Chance to Hit: 0.5^(0+(Falloff parts / 1)^2)

*Relative DPS: if(HitChance>0.01 then (HitChance-0.01)*((0.50)+(HitChance+0.49))/2+0.01*3 else HitChance*3)

*Reduction in DPS: (RelativeDPSat100%hit/RelativeDPScurrent)*100%-100%

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==Are target painters useful for turrets?==

Yes, but only if the chance to hit is below 100% due to poor tracking or by using large guns against a small target, if the decreased hit chance is because of falloff then a target painter will not help at all. A regular target painter I increases the signature radius of a ship by +25%. Since all tracking terms are multiplied with another in the hit chance equation, the number can be moved around inside it to see how it effects the other factors. So another way to look at it is this: the signature radius increase is identical to what would happen if the target instead had reduced its angular velocity to 80% (100%/125%) of its current or as if the turrets had gotten +25% more tracking against the target. Keep in mind that this last part was only a comparison, a target painter doesn't actually reduce anyones speed or improves anyones tracking.

==+0.49? It says +0.50 on the EVEonline wiki==

Yes it does. But some tests that were made to ensure the validity of this article says otherwise. The data is too big to present here, so results and the method to collect it will be presented instead. Should you wish to check for yourself feel free to follow this procedure. A frigate was named 'Ouch' and abandoned at a safespot. An Osprey was fitted with lasers (infinite ammo, perfect for afk:ing), a remote shield transfer and shield transfer drones. The guns and the ammo was chosen so that the damage would never go below 10.0, this assures that all data points collected will have 3 accurate digits and improve the quality of the data. The damage was also only done to the shields, they where never allowed to drop below 25% since a bleed through into armor can happen that can mess with the observed damage. Finally, the ships were positioned within optimal range and the speed set to zero to ensure that the chance to hit is 0.5^0 = 100% and nothing less. After 10,656 shots on the poor frigate, enough data was collected to make some conclusions about how the random damage distribution looks like. The data ends up in the My Documents\EVE\gamelogs on windows, and was easily copied into a prepared Excel sheet for fast (well, it took a few minutes before the data was processed) results.

*Base damage

**The ammo type dealt: 7 EM and 5 Thermal

**The base damage on the lasers were: 24.9063

**Compensating for resistance (20% thermal) the modified base damage is: 22.8308

Of the 10,656 shots the lowest recorded damage was 11.4 (recorded 15 times) and the highest non-perfect was 34.0 (recorded 33 times), perfect hits dealt 68.5 damage (recorded 101 times). On average, each damage number (anything between 11.5 to 33.9) was recorded 46.7 times. The reason for the lower occurances of the min and max results on normal hits comes from rounding effects. Any damage in between has an interval of 0.1 units (22.2500 to 22.3499 both produce the 22.3 in the log). However the min and max values do not have that span. The lowest theoretical number is Base Damage x 0.5 = 11.415, hence the interval to get 11.4 in the log is between 11.415 and 11.4499, that is only 0.0345 differance. So the expected number of occurances of the value 11.4 is only 34.6% of the average number, 15 recorded values / 34.6% = 43.4, close to average and within acceptable deviation. The upper interval is 67.8%, 33 times / 67.8% = 48.7, also close to average. (Note: 34.6%+67.8%=102.4%, which is impossible ofc, the error comes from rounding errors in the 4th decimal of the basedamage, awesome precision isn't needed for this particular calculation so meh).

*Lowest damage random multiple

**Modified base damage x 0.51 = 11.6

**Modified base damage x 0.50 = 11.4

**Modified base damage x 0.49 = 11.2

**The lowest observed damage is 50%

*Highest non-perfect random multiple

**Modified base damage x 1.50 = 34.2

**Modified base damage x 1.49 = 34.0

**Modified base damage x 1.48 = 33.8

**The highest non-perfect damage is 149%

*Perfect hits deal 68.5 damage

**Modified base damage x 3 = 68.5

The collected data shows that the normal damage is distributed within 50%-149%. Since the first 1% unit is used for critical rolls, this means that the constant has to be 0.49.

@@ Line 28: / Line 28: @@
 What about tracking?  Well, if traversal speed = 0, the tracking term evaluates to zero.  So getting your target to come straight at you is super if you can do it.  If he won't do that, the best way to minimize this term is some combination of: keep the target at '''longer''' range, lower the traversal speed, increase your turret's tracking speed, and/or increase the target's signature radius.  That's range, webs, tracking computers, and target painters, in concrete terms.  You can also choose 'keep at range' on a target to minimize the traversal -- though bear in mind that your target will be able to hit you more easily, too.  Note that as range gets smaller, approaching 0, the tracking term inflates toward infinity if there's any traversal speed at all -- so your chance to hit plummets toward zero.
-=Turret damage numbers=
+=Turret damage dealing=
+==Random damage distribution==
 At the heart of a turrets damage output is a single randomly generated value between 0 and 1 that is several digits long, something like 0.317226. This random number is used both to determine if the turret hits the target and also to determine how much damage the hit actually does. Should the randomly generated number be less than 0.01 (1% chance), it will be a perfect hit (aka wrecking), this kind of hit always deal exactly three times the base damage. The thing about perfect hits is that they always occur as long as that random number was lower than 0.01 and at the same time lower than the hit chance. So perfect hits are not scored by 1% of the shots that hits, its scored 1% of all hits and misses taken together. This means that if your chance to hit is 1% or below, you can only do perfect hits. Most shots will be misses of course, but those that do hit, they will be perfect.
@@ Line 41: / Line 43: @@
 ***X = Random (0 to 1)
 **Calculating raw damage
-***If (X < 0.01) Then RAW DAMAGE = 3 * Turret Base Damage ''(these are called perfect or wrecking hits)''
+***If (X < 0.01 and X < Hit Chance) Then RAW DAMAGE = 3 * Turret Base Damage ''(these are called perfect or wrecking hits)''
 ***Else If (X < Hit Chance) Then RAW DAMAGE = (X + 0.49) * Turret Base Damage ''(these are normal hits)''
 ***Else RAW DAMAGE = 0 ''(this is a miss)''
@@ Line 148: / Line 150: @@
 The formulas used to calculate this table were:
-*Chance to Hit: 0.5^(0+(Falloff parts / 100%)^2)
+*Chance to Hit: 0.5^(0+(Falloff parts / 1)^2)
 *Relative DPS: if(HitChance>0.01 then (HitChance-0.01)*((0.50)+(HitChance+0.49))/2+0.01*3 else HitChance*3)
 *Reduction in DPS: (RelativeDPSat100%hit/RelativeDPScurrent)*100%-100%
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 ==Are target painters useful for turrets?==
 Yes, but only if the chance to hit is below 100% due to poor tracking or by using large guns against a small target, if the decreased hit chance is because of falloff then a target painter will not help at all. A regular target painter I increases the signature radius of a ship by +25%. Since all tracking terms are multiplied with another in the hit chance equation, the number can be moved around inside it to see how it effects the other factors. So another way to look at it is this: the signature radius increase is identical to what would happen if the target instead had reduced its angular velocity to 80% (100%/125%) of its current or as if the turrets had gotten +25% more tracking against the target. Keep in mind that this last part was only a comparison, a target painter doesn't actually reduce anyones speed or improves anyones tracking.
+==+0.49? It says +0.50 on the EVEonline wiki==
+Yes it does. But some tests that were made to ensure the validity of this article says otherwise. The data is too big to present here, so results and the method to collect it will be presented instead. Should you wish to check for yourself feel free to follow this procedure. A frigate was named 'Ouch' and abandoned at a safespot. An Osprey was fitted with lasers (infinite ammo, perfect for afk:ing), a remote shield transfer and shield transfer drones. The guns and the ammo was chosen so that the damage would never go below 10.0, this assures that all data points collected will have 3 accurate digits and improve the quality of the data. The damage was also only done to the shields, they where never allowed to drop below 25% since a bleed through into armor can happen that can mess with the observed damage. Finally, the ships were positioned within optimal range and the speed set to zero to ensure that the chance to hit is 0.5^0 = 100% and nothing less. After 10,656 shots on the poor frigate, enough data was collected to make some conclusions about how the random damage distribution looks like. The data ends up in the My Documents\EVE\gamelogs on windows, and was easily copied into a prepared Excel sheet for fast (well, it took a few minutes before the data was processed) results.
+*Base damage
+**The ammo type dealt: 7 EM and 5 Thermal
+**The base damage on the lasers were: 24.9063
+**Compensating for resistance (20% thermal) the modified base damage is: 22.8308
+Of the 10,656 shots the lowest recorded damage was 11.4 (recorded 15 times) and the highest non-perfect was 34.0 (recorded 33 times), perfect hits dealt 68.5 damage (recorded 101 times). On average, each damage number (anything between 11.5 to 33.9) was recorded 46.7 times. The reason for the lower occurances of the min and max results on normal hits comes from rounding effects. Any damage in between has an interval of 0.1 units (22.2500 to 22.3499 both produce the 22.3 in the log). However the min and max values do not have that span. The lowest theoretical number is Base Damage x 0.5 = 11.415, hence the interval to get 11.4 in the log is between 11.415 and 11.4499, that is only 0.0345 differance. So the expected number of occurances of the value 11.4 is only 34.6% of the average number, 15 recorded values / 34.6% = 43.4, close to average and within acceptable deviation. The upper interval is 67.8%, 33 times / 67.8% = 48.7, also close to average. (Note: 34.6%+67.8%=102.4%, which is impossible ofc, the error comes from rounding errors in the 4th decimal of the basedamage, awesome precision isn't needed for this particular calculation so meh).
+*Lowest damage random multiple
+**Modified base damage x 0.51 = 11.6
+**Modified base damage x 0.50 = 11.4
+**Modified base damage x 0.49 = 11.2
+**The lowest observed damage is 50%
+*Highest non-perfect random multiple
+**Modified base damage x 1.50 = 34.2
+**Modified base damage x 1.49 = 34.0
+**Modified base damage x 1.48 = 33.8
+**The highest non-perfect damage is 149%
+*Perfect hits deal 68.5 damage
+**Modified base damage x 3 = 68.5
+The collected data shows that the normal damage is distributed within 50%-149%. Since the first 1% unit is used for critical rolls, this means that the constant has to be 0.49.