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User:Olly Wakwako/sandbox/Incursion Fitting Principles: Difference between revisions

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| valign="top" | [[File:Icon armor plate.png|link=|64px]]
| valign="top" | [[File:Icon armor plate.png|link=|64px]]
| {{co|coral|Armour Tank}}
| {{co|coral|Armor Tank}}


The EVE University Incursion Community uses an armour-tanked doctrine to run sites. We aim for all of our damage-dealing ships to have '''67% Armour resists''' in every damage type, and to have around '''10,000 armour hitpoints''' before any command bursts are applied.
The EVE University Incursion Community uses an armor-tanked doctrine to run sites. We aim for all of our damage-dealing ships to have '''67% Armor resists''' in every damage type, and to have around '''10,000 armor hitpoints''' before any command bursts are applied.
|-
|-
| valign="top" | [[File:Module icon armor rig tech1.png|link=|64px]]  
| valign="top" | [[File:Module icon armor rig tech1.png|link=|64px]]  
| {{co|coral|Rigs}}
| {{co|coral|Rigs}}


Our suggested fits are designed with rigs that are compatible with the suggested fits of public armour headquarters communities. This allows our members to join in with content that the Univeristy cannot provide without having to buy a separate ship or spend excess ISK on rerigging their ships.
Our suggested fits are designed with rigs that are compatible with the suggested fits of public armor headquarters communities. This allows our members to join in with content that the Univeristy cannot provide without having to buy a separate ship or spend excess ISK on rerigging their ships.


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| {{co|coral|Drones}}
| {{co|coral|Drones}}


Drones will not be called upon in every fleet, as they are of marginal benefit. However, they can get fleets out of sticky situations on occasion, so we ask that every ship be fitted with at least a set of '''Acolytes''' and a set of '''Armour Maintainance Bots''' for use in emergencies.
Drones will not be called upon in every fleet, as they are of marginal benefit. However, they can get fleets out of sticky situations on occasion, so we ask that every ship be fitted with at least a set of '''Acolytes''' and a set of '''Armor Maintainance Bots''' for use in emergencies.
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| valign="top" | {{icon|turret new|64px}}  
| valign="top" | {{icon|turret new|64px}}  
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| {{co|coral|Damage Control}}
| {{co|coral|Damage Control}}


All of our fits make use of a '''Damage Control''', as this both provides an okay bump in armour resistance, but vitally provides significant hull resistance, which could be the difference between a ship living or dying in an emergency.
All of our fits make use of a '''Damage Control''', as this both provides an okay bump in armor resistance, but vitally provides significant hull resistance, which could be the difference between a ship living or dying in an emergency.
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| valign="top" | [[image:module_icon_propulsion_rig_tech2.png|64px|link=]]  
| valign="top" | [[image:module_icon_propulsion_rig_tech2.png|64px|link=]]  
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= Why these principles? =
= Why these principles? =


=== Shield vs armour doctrines ===
=== Shield vs armor doctrines ===
Incursions can be done with both shield and armour doctrines. Previously the EVE University Incursion Community has used a shield doctrine, however we now use an armour doctrine. There are pros and cons to both:
Incursions can be done with both shield and armor doctrines. Previously the EVE University Incursion Community has used a shield doctrine, however we now use an armor doctrine. There are pros and cons to both:


* Shield tanking modules are less skill dependant compared to armour, as passive armour modules require the armour compensation skills. However, there is no multispectrum passive shield amplifier, so shield tanking relies on capacitor, and can be turned off if a ship is sufficiently neuted. This aspect is most prevalent in Assault and Headquarters sites, where neut pressure is much more of a concern owing to the Otouni Mesen, which carries a capital-sized neutralizer, as well as the requirement of those sites to equip propulsion modules which are exceedingly capacitor hungry on their own.
* Shield tanking modules are less skill dependant compared to armor, as passive armor modules require the armor compensation skills. However, there is no multispectrum passive shield amplifier, so shield tanking relies on capacitor, and can be turned off if a ship is sufficiently neuted. This aspect is most prevalent in Assault and Headquarters sites, where neut pressure is much more of a concern owing to the Otouni Mesen, which carries a capital-sized neutralizer, as well as the requirement of those sites to equip propulsion modules which are exceedingly capacitor hungry on their own.
* Remote shield boosters apply their repairs at the start of a cycle, which can allow logistics to be applied sooner in the case of sudden aggro switches, however amour repairs tend to cycle faster, and have some buffer in their shields, meaning this benefit is somewhat negated.
* Remote shield boosters apply their repairs at the start of a cycle, which can allow logistics to be applied sooner in the case of sudden aggro switches, however amour repairs tend to cycle faster, and have some buffer in their shields, meaning this benefit is somewhat negated.
* In the event that a ships tank were to break, shield ships have more buffer than armour ships - a shield ship can bleed both armour and hull, whereas an armour tanked ship would only be bleeding hull.
* In the event that a ships tank were to break, shield ships have more buffer than armor ships - a shield ship can bleed both armor and hull, whereas an armor tanked ship would only be bleeding hull.
* Shield tanking modules occupy the midslots of a ship, which could otherwise be used by modules such as tracking computers and sensor boosters (which are more effective and flexible as compared to their lowslot counterparts), as well as other utility modules such as stasis webifiers and target painters. Armour tanking modules instead take up lowslots.
* Shield tanking modules occupy the midslots of a ship, which could otherwise be used by modules such as tracking computers and sensor boosters (which are more effective and flexible as compared to their lowslot counterparts), as well as other utility modules such as stasis webifiers and target painters. Armor tanking modules instead take up lowslots.


In the [[EVE University Incursion Community]] we run armour doctrine because of a mix of these reasons, as well as the fact that the majority of the public incursion communities now run armour doctrine fleets, meaning Unistas who wish to explore the incursions content that the University cannot provide are best positioned to do so.
In the [[EVE University Incursion Community]] we run armor doctrine because of a mix of these reasons, as well as the fact that the majority of the public incursion communities now run armor doctrine fleets, meaning Unistas who wish to explore the incursions content that the University cannot provide are best positioned to do so.


=== Sansha Incursion Rats ===
=== Sansha Incursion Rats ===
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| valign="top" style="padding:4px;" | [[image:icon_sensor_booster_ii.png|24px|link]] '''Sensor Booster II'''<br>[[image:icon_stasis_webifier_faction.png|24px|link=]] '''Federation Navy Stasis Webifier'''<br>[[image:icon_tracking_computer_ii.png|24px|link=]] '''Tracking Computer II'''<br>[[image:icon_target_painter_faction.png|24px|link=]] '''Republic Fleet Target Painter'''
| valign="top" style="padding:4px;" | [[image:icon_sensor_booster_ii.png|24px|link]] '''Sensor Booster II'''<br>[[image:icon_stasis_webifier_faction.png|24px|link=]] '''Federation Navy Stasis Webifier'''<br>[[image:icon_tracking_computer_ii.png|24px|link=]] '''Tracking Computer II'''<br>[[image:icon_target_painter_faction.png|24px|link=]] '''Republic Fleet Target Painter'''
| valign="top" style="padding:4px;" | [[File:Icon remote armor repair i.png|24px]] Large Remote Armour Repairer I <br>[[image:Icon remote capacitor transmitter ii.png|24px|link=]] Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II<br>[[image:icon auto targeting system i.png|24px|link=]] Auto Targeting System I<br>[[image:icon_drone_link_augmentor_i.png|24px|link=]] Drone Link Augmentor I
| valign="top" style="padding:4px;" | [[File:Icon remote armor repair i.png|24px]] Large Remote Armor Repairer I <br>[[image:Icon remote capacitor transmitter ii.png|24px|link=]] Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II<br>[[image:icon auto targeting system i.png|24px|link=]] Auto Targeting System I<br>[[image:icon_drone_link_augmentor_i.png|24px|link=]] Drone Link Augmentor I
|}
|}
While the exact fits vary between communities as well as fleet compositions, there are a few common grounds for using utility mids. In vanguards, the sensor boosters allow you to lock up the much smaller frigates more quickly, webs are used to help apply damage to enemies that come close, while painters and tracking computers help apply damage at range. The same can be said for assaults and headquarters, although the need for sensor boosters rapidly diminish as you move on from vanguards, as there are fewer frigates in assaults and headquarter sites, reducing the need for sensor boosters.
While the exact fits vary between communities as well as fleet compositions, there are a few common grounds for using utility mids. In vanguards, the sensor boosters allow you to lock up the much smaller frigates more quickly, webs are used to help apply damage to enemies that come close, while painters and tracking computers help apply damage at range. The same can be said for assaults and headquarters, although the need for sensor boosters rapidly diminish as you move on from vanguards, as there are fewer frigates in assaults and headquarter sites, reducing the need for sensor boosters.


Utility highs are selected based on individual ship needs. It is common for ships to include an '''Auto Targeting System''' in a utility highslot to give access to more locked targets, potentially allowing a ship to lock all of the Sansha in a wave up at the same time, removing the need to continually lock rats as the wave progresses. Outside of this, it is good practice to include '''Remote Armour Repairers''' for use in emergencies where the logistics pilot in a fleet may have disconnected. Outside of Vanguards, ''Remote Capacitor Transmitters'' can be useful, as these can help ships being targetted by Sansha such as the Deltole Tegmentum or Otouni Mesen, which provide significant capacitor neutralization pressure.
Utility highs are selected based on individual ship needs. It is common for ships to include an '''Auto Targeting System''' in a utility highslot to give access to more locked targets, potentially allowing a ship to lock all of the Sansha in a wave up at the same time, removing the need to continually lock rats as the wave progresses. Outside of this, it is good practice to include '''Remote Armor Repairers''' for use in emergencies where the logistics pilot in a fleet may have disconnected. Outside of Vanguards, ''Remote Capacitor Transmitters'' can be useful, as these can help ships being targetted by Sansha such as the Deltole Tegmentum or Otouni Mesen, which provide significant capacitor neutralization pressure.


=== Drones ===
=== Drones ===
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<small><references/></small>
<small><references/></small>


Aside from damage drones, logistics drones are vital to the safety of a fleet. In the case that the logistics pilot disconnects, the fleet is at significant risk due to the diminished remotre repairs available. In such as case, the fleet relies on the repping power of the logibooster, on the utility reps of ships which have them, and on the logistics drones that every member of the fleet carries. To this end, we suggest that every ship be equipped with at least a set of Armour Maintainance Bots. Additionally, if a pilot wishes, they could bring a set of Hull Maintainance Bots to repair any hull scratches that might occur in sticky situations.
Aside from damage drones, logistics drones are vital to the safety of a fleet. In the case that the logistics pilot disconnects, the fleet is at significant risk due to the diminished remotre repairs available. In such as case, the fleet relies on the repping power of the logibooster, on the utility reps of ships which have them, and on the logistics drones that every member of the fleet carries. To this end, we suggest that every ship be equipped with at least a set of Armor Maintainance Bots. Additionally, if a pilot wishes, they could bring a set of Hull Maintainance Bots to repair any hull scratches that might occur in sticky situations.


=== Rigging choice ===
=== Rigging choice ===
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| {{co|coral|Defense Rigs}}
| {{co|coral|Defense Rigs}}


It is common for fits to have one or a combination of an Explosive, Thermal, or Kinetic armour resistance rig. It is also common for some fits to utilize a trimark armour pump rig, especially for those ships with less raw armour HP such as the Praxis. This can help eek out enough armour HP to avoid the need for a plate in the lowslots.
It is common for fits to have one or a combination of an Explosive, Thermal, or Kinetic armor resistance rig. It is also common for some fits to utilize a trimark armor pump rig, especially for those ships with less raw armor HP such as the Praxis. This can help eek out enough armor HP to avoid the need for a plate in the lowslots.
|-
|-
| valign="top" | [[File:Icon projectile rig.png|link=|64px]]
| valign="top" | [[File:Icon projectile rig.png|link=|64px]]
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=== Determining a proper tank ===
=== Determining a proper tank ===
There are a few easy ways to determine whether a tank is OK or not. You can judge your tank by many means, but for Incursions the best way to measure your tank is to look at '''effective armour hit points''' (EAHP), as opposed to '''damage per second repaired''' (DPS-tank) or the generic '''effective hit points''' (EHP). This is because a lot of ships have significant shield and hull hit points, so the effective hit points value can be quite misleading on a battleship with a damage control for example, as the EHP-value skyrockets compared to a ship without a damage control fitted, but very little of it applies to the actual EAHP.
There are a few easy ways to determine whether a tank is OK or not. You can judge your tank by many means, but for Incursions the best way to measure your tank is to look at '''effective armor hit points''' (EAHP), as opposed to '''damage per second repaired''' (DPS-tank) or the generic '''effective hit points''' (EHP). This is because a lot of ships have significant shield and hull hit points, so the effective hit points value can be quite misleading on a battleship with a damage control for example, as the EHP-value skyrockets compared to a ship without a damage control fitted, but very little of it applies to the actual EAHP.


While the above mentioned effective armour hit points is a good measure, it is not always practical to use on the fly. For one it doesn't really tell you if the ship has any glaring resist holes, so for practical reasons we tend to speak in more general terms -- Armour hit points and resists. It's much easier to just ask the pilot ''"How many raw armour hit points do you have?"'' and ''"What are your resists?"''. It's very easy for people to check this ingame and it tells us enough to judge whether or not the fit is ok.
While the above mentioned effective armor hit points is a good measure, it is not always practical to use on the fly. For one it doesn't really tell you if the ship has any glaring resist holes, so for practical reasons we tend to speak in more general terms -- Armor hit points and resists. It's much easier to just ask the pilot ''"How many raw armor hit points do you have?"'' and ''"What are your resists?"''. It's very easy for people to check this ingame and it tells us enough to judge whether or not the fit is ok.


==== Guidelines ====
==== Guidelines ====
{{note box|Values listed here are approximate based on our tank guidlines, and inferred from the basic fits of armour headquarters groups. Though Warp To Me does publish their tank requirements (67% omni shield resists and 12,000 raw shield HP}, others do not.}}
{{note box|Values listed here are approximate based on our tank guidlines, and inferred from the basic fits of armor headquarters groups. Though Warp To Me does publish their tank requirements (67% omni shield resists and 12,000 raw shield HP}, others do not.}}
Below are some rough guidelines for what a proper tank might be for a battleship (there isn't much variation to speak of for logistics). Since we focus mainly on low skilled, kitchen sink setups we're going with a relatively high recommended level for our community. The values below are of raw armour hit points and paired average resists (EM/thermal and kinetic/explosive), values '''before boosts''' for easy comparison.
Below are some rough guidelines for what a proper tank might be for a battleship (there isn't much variation to speak of for logistics). Since we focus mainly on low skilled, kitchen sink setups we're going with a relatively high recommended level for our community. The values below are of raw armor hit points and paired average resists (EM/thermal and kinetic/explosive), values '''before boosts''' for easy comparison.
{|
{|
| [[image:Incursions_vanguard_icon.png|42px|Vanguards]]
| [[image:Incursions_vanguard_icon.png|42px|Vanguards]]
| [[Incursion sites#Vanguard sites|Vanguards]] ''33k+ effective armour hit points''<br>67% resists and at least 10,000 raw armour hit points.
| [[Incursion sites#Vanguard sites|Vanguards]] ''33k+ effective armor hit points''<br>67% resists and at least 10,000 raw armor hit points.
|-
|-
| [[image:Incursions_assault_icon.png|42px|Assaults]]
| [[image:Incursions_assault_icon.png|42px|Assaults]]
| [[Incursion sites#Assault sites|Assaults]] ''50k+ effective armour hit points''<br>70% resists and at least 15,000 raw armour hit points.
| [[Incursion sites#Assault sites|Assaults]] ''50k+ effective armor hit points''<br>70% resists and at least 15,000 raw armor hit points.
|-
|-
| [[image:Incursions_headquarter_icon.png|42px|Headquarters]]
| [[image:Incursions_headquarter_icon.png|42px|Headquarters]]
| [[Incursion sites#Headquarter sites|Headquarters]] ''75k+ effective armour hit points''<br>70% resists and 20,000 raw armour hit points.
| [[Incursion sites#Headquarter sites|Headquarters]] ''75k+ effective armor hit points''<br>70% resists and 20,000 raw armor hit points.
|}
|}


In vanguards it is somewhat common for FCs to allow (sometimes significantly) lower resists in fleets with sufficient DPS. This is a concept known as ''DPS tanking''. Though it can be precarious and depend on all members of the fleet flying their ships effectively, having 4 or 5 Marauders in a fleet means that a significant portion of the Sanshas DPS never applies because the ships die before the get into range to apply significantly. With that said, remember that resists are far more important than raw armour hit points, as higher resists has the secondary benefit of increasing the efficiency of remote repairs. Below is a graph illustrating how damage changes with scaling resists.
In vanguards it is somewhat common for FCs to allow (sometimes significantly) lower resists in fleets with sufficient DPS. This is a concept known as ''DPS tanking''. Though it can be precarious and depend on all members of the fleet flying their ships effectively, having 4 or 5 Marauders in a fleet means that a significant portion of the Sanshas DPS never applies because the ships die before the get into range to apply significantly. With that said, remember that resists are far more important than raw armor hit points, as higher resists has the secondary benefit of increasing the efficiency of remote repairs. Below is a graph illustrating how damage changes with scaling resists.


{| class="wikitable" style="font-size:90%;"  
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size:90%;"  
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==== Required Modules - Rigs, Tank, and Guns ====
==== Required Modules - Rigs, Tank, and Guns ====
We begin with the rigs, as we would like for our fit to be useful outside of Vanguards. The rigs used by Contingency Incursions for their "Advanced" Nightmare fit (and also by The Ditanian Fleet, but strangely only in their "Antigank" fit) are a T1 Explosive and Kinetic Armour Reinforcer, and a T2 Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer.
We begin with the rigs, as we would like for our fit to be useful outside of Vanguards. The rigs used by Contingency Incursions for their "Advanced" Nightmare fit (and also by The Ditanian Fleet, but strangely only in their "Antigank" fit) are a T1 Explosive and Kinetic Armor Reinforcer, and a T2 Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer.


Following this, we consider how to meet the 67% omni resists guideline. Looking to those same headquarters fits, we see expensive A-Type deadspace modules. Looking again to the "Antigank" fits, we see the use of Imperial Navy Multispectrum Energized Membranes. Using two of these on our Nightmare with the aforementioned rigs doesn't quite get us to the resists we need, but adding a Damage Control puts us over the mark. Finally for now, we know that we will need to be able to do damage, so we include the maximum number of Mega Pulse Laser IIs that we can fit - 4 to match the 4 turret hardpoints of the Nightmare.
Following this, we consider how to meet the 67% omni resists guideline. Looking to those same headquarters fits, we see expensive A-Type deadspace modules. Looking again to the "Antigank" fits, we see the use of Imperial Navy Multispectrum Energized Membranes. Using two of these on our Nightmare with the aforementioned rigs doesn't quite get us to the resists we need, but adding a Damage Control puts us over the mark. Finally for now, we know that we will need to be able to do damage, so we include the maximum number of Mega Pulse Laser IIs that we can fit - 4 to match the 4 turret hardpoints of the Nightmare.
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==== Finishing the Fit====
==== Finishing the Fit====


Finally, we have a pair of utility highslots to fill, as well as our drone bay. Continuing the theme of greed, we will use an Auto Targeting System II in one of our highslots, which will allow us to lock a few more targets, making our experience in fleet a bit nicer. We will also include a Remote Armour Repairer, as this can be used in emergencies to keep our fleetmates alive, especially if the logistics pilot disconnects. Finally, we will include a set of 5 Imperial Navy Acolytes for our damage drones, and a set of 5 Medium Armour Maintainance Bots for further emergency logistics.  
Finally, we have a pair of utility highslots to fill, as well as our drone bay. Continuing the theme of greed, we will use an Auto Targeting System II in one of our highslots, which will allow us to lock a few more targets, making our experience in fleet a bit nicer. We will also include a Remote Armor Repairer, as this can be used in emergencies to keep our fleetmates alive, especially if the logistics pilot disconnects. Finally, we will include a set of 5 Imperial Navy Acolytes for our damage drones, and a set of 5 Medium Armor Maintainance Bots for further emergency logistics.  


This rounds out the fit, which looks very similar to our suggested Intermediate Nightmare fit.  
This rounds out the fit, which looks very similar to our suggested Intermediate Nightmare fit.