Turret damage: Difference between revisions

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Additional information about turrets can also be found on http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Turrets and tips and tricks for using turrets more effectively is at http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Gunnery_Guide

=The First Part: Summary=

To understand how turret damage is generated you will need to understand a number of concepts and how they interconnect. Some of them are visible under the attributes tab when you click for info on your guns. Especially falloff and tracking can be tricky to grasp, so be extra careful when reading those.

To understand how turret damage is generated you will need to understand a number of concepts and how they interconnect. Some of them are visible under the attributes tab when you click for info on your guns, but not all. Especially the concepts falloff and tracking can be tricky to grasp, so be extra careful when reading those.

==Hit chance==

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==Average Damage==

The average damage is the one you do under ideal conditions (a 100% hit chance). But there is always a random element present in turret damage so your actual damage will jump around a bit. When the hit chance is 100% the damage spread will be between 50% and 150% of the average damage, this spread is unavoidable and built into the damage generation. There is an exception to this, so pay extra attention now, because this is a little tricky. When the hit chance is reduced, the highest possible damage also goes down even if all shots did hit. The interval around the average damage is always 50% to (50%+hit chance). So at 30% hit chance the damage interval is down to only 50% to 80% of average damage. This is in addition to the fact that only 30% of your hits will land. Thus there are two things that will reduce the damage you do whenever you loose hit chance. (This description has two tiny intentional errors ~~in it~~ that were used to explain ~~the~~ concept more easily: the first error is that the damage interval is actually spread around what is known as base damage and not average damage, the second error is that the percent interval only has 99 units, more details can be found in the second part below).

The average damage is the one you do under ideal conditions (a 100% hit chance). But there is always a random element present in turret damage so your actual damage will jump around a bit. When the hit chance is 100% the damage spread will be between 50% and 150% of the average damage, this spread is unavoidable and built into the damage generation. There is an exception to this, so pay extra attention now, because this is a little tricky. When the hit chance is reduced, the highest possible damage also goes down even if all shots did hit. The interval around the average damage is always 50% to (50%+hit chance). So at 30% hit chance the damage interval is down to only 50% to 80% of average damage. This is in addition to the fact that only 30% of your hits will land. Thus there are two things that will reduce the damage you do whenever you loose hit chance. (This description has two tiny intentional errors that were used to help explain this concept more easily: the first error is that the damage interval is actually spread around what is known as base damage and not average damage, the second error is that the percent interval only has 99 units, more details can be found in the second part below).

==Perfect hits==

In the 0-100 percent hit chance interval, there is a 1% chance of doing a perfect hit. It is that first percent unit in the entire interval. Think of it as rolling a 1D100 (a dice with a onehundred sides), if it lands on a 1, you get a perfect hit regardless of the hit chance. This actually means that if your hit chance is a measly two percent, half of your hits will be perfect. If your hit chance is less than one percent, you must first ~~score a~~ hit before it can become a perfect. A perfect hit will always do exactly 300% of the average damage (tiny intentional error, it is base damage).

In the 0-100 percent hit chance interval, there is a 1% chance of doing a perfect hit. It is that first percent unit in the entire interval. Think of it as rolling a 1D100 (a dice with a onehundred sides), if it lands on a 1, you get a perfect hit regardless of the hit chance. This actually means that if your hit chance is a measly two percent, half of your hits will be perfect. If your hit chance is less than one percent, you must first get that hit, before it can become a perfect one. A perfect hit will always do exactly 300% of the average damage (tiny intentional error, it is base damage).

==Range==

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Example: A battleship (400m resolution on guns) fires on a frigate (40m radius). Target size divided by gun size gives us 40m / 400m = 0.1, or 10%. When the battleship fires on the frigate it can thus only use 10% of its actual tracking value (which is already low), due to the size differance. This is why it is so freakin hard to hit small things with big guns (if they are moving).

Example 2: An Incursion Machariel with 3 Tracking Enhancer ~~II's~~ and T2 large autocannons have a tracking value of 0.067rad/sec. While shooting at a Sansha frigate (49m size), its ~~real~~ tracking value is only 49m / 400m = 0.1225 or 12% of the stated one, 0.067rad/sec x 0.1225 =

Example 2: An Incursion Machariel with three T2 Tracking Enhancer and T2 large autocannons have a tracking value of 0.067rad/sec. While shooting at a Sansha frigate (49m size), its tracking value in practice is only 49m / 400m = 0.1225 or 12% of the stated one, 0.067rad/sec x 0.1225 = 0.0082rad/sec. A typical Sansha frigate orbits at 14km at roughly 500m/s, that corresponds to an angular velocity of 500m/s / 14000m = 0.036rad/sec. Although this is half of the written tracking value, it is over 4 times higher than the Machariels practical tracking value against that a small target, so it becomes almost impossible to hit. No wonder why incursion fleets love webs.

0.0082rad/sec. A typical Sansha frigate orbits at 14km at roughly 500m/s, that corresponds to an angular velocity of 500m/s / 14000m = 0.036rad/sec. ~~Which~~ is over 4 times higher than the Machariels tracking value ~~and practically~~ impossible to hit. No wonder why incursion fleets love webs ~~(tracking links are nice too)~~.

==Grouping guns, does it affect the damage?==

No. Even if the guns are grouped on your screen, they are still treated separately. This can be seen by collecting damage data and comparing that with the normal expected damage distribution, its very clear that its a combination of several seperate turret shots. It can also be deduced by looking at the turret group's damage output when shooting at hard to hit objects, like things deep into falloff, its quite easy to tell when one, two or more guns hit the target.

==Does a Target Painter help turrets?==

Since these modules increases the targets signature size, it means that turrets will have an easier way to track the victim. Improving tracking with +20% has the same effect as increasing a targets size with +20%. It is noteworthy that a T2 Target Painter with full skills give a +37.5% boost and help your friends too, while a T2 Tracking Computer (with tracking script) gives +30% (but it can swap to increased range scripts, can't miss and need less cap).

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**Modified base damage x 3 = 68.5

The collected data shows that the normal damage is distributed within 50%-149%. Since the first 1% unit is used for critical rolls (this is most likely, if the last % unit was used additional calculations will be needed if the to hit chance is less than 1%).

The collected data shows that the normal damage is distributed within 50%-149%. Since the first 1% unit is used for critical rolls (this is most likely, if the last % unit was used additional calculations will be needed if the to hit chance is less than 1%), the constant added to the damage roll should be 0.49.

@@ Line 9: / Line 9: @@
 Additional information about turrets can also be found on http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Turrets and tips and tricks for using turrets more effectively is at http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Gunnery_Guide
 =The First Part: Summary=
-To understand how turret damage is generated you will need to understand a number of concepts and how they interconnect. Some of them are visible under the attributes tab when you click for info on your guns. Especially falloff and tracking can be tricky to grasp, so be extra careful when reading those.
+To understand how turret damage is generated you will need to understand a number of concepts and how they interconnect. Some of them are visible under the attributes tab when you click for info on your guns, but not all. Especially the concepts falloff and tracking can be tricky to grasp, so be extra careful when reading those.
 ==Hit chance==
@@ Line 20: / Line 21: @@
 ==Average Damage==
-The average damage is the one you do under ideal conditions (a 100% hit chance). But there is always a random element present in turret damage so your actual damage will jump around a bit. When the hit chance is 100% the damage spread will be between 50% and 150% of the average damage, this spread is unavoidable and built into the damage generation. There is an exception to this, so pay extra attention now, because this is a little tricky. When the hit chance is reduced, the highest possible damage also goes down even if all shots did hit. The interval around the average damage is always 50% to (50%+hit chance). So at 30% hit chance the damage interval is down to only 50% to 80% of average damage. This is in addition to the fact that only 30% of your hits will land. Thus there are two things that will reduce the damage you do whenever you loose hit chance. (This description has two tiny intentional errors in it that were used to explain the concept more easily: the first error is that the damage interval is actually spread around what is known as base damage and not average damage, the second error is that the percent interval only has 99 units, more details can be found in the second part below).
+The average damage is the one you do under ideal conditions (a 100% hit chance). But there is always a random element present in turret damage so your actual damage will jump around a bit. When the hit chance is 100% the damage spread will be between 50% and 150% of the average damage, this spread is unavoidable and built into the damage generation. There is an exception to this, so pay extra attention now, because this is a little tricky. When the hit chance is reduced, the highest possible damage also goes down even if all shots did hit. The interval around the average damage is always 50% to (50%+hit chance). So at 30% hit chance the damage interval is down to only 50% to 80% of average damage. This is in addition to the fact that only 30% of your hits will land. Thus there are two things that will reduce the damage you do whenever you loose hit chance. (This description has two tiny intentional errors that were used to help explain this concept more easily: the first error is that the damage interval is actually spread around what is known as base damage and not average damage, the second error is that the percent interval only has 99 units, more details can be found in the second part below).
 ==Perfect hits==
-In the 0-100 percent hit chance interval, there is a 1% chance of doing a perfect hit. It is that first percent unit in the entire interval. Think of it as rolling a 1D100 (a dice with a onehundred sides), if it lands on a 1, you get a perfect hit regardless of the hit chance. This actually means that if your hit chance is a measly two percent, half of your hits will be perfect. If your hit chance is less than one percent, you must first score a hit before it can become a perfect. A perfect hit will always do exactly 300% of the average damage (tiny intentional error, it is base damage).
+In the 0-100 percent hit chance interval, there is a 1% chance of doing a perfect hit. It is that first percent unit in the entire interval. Think of it as rolling a 1D100 (a dice with a onehundred sides), if it lands on a 1, you get a perfect hit regardless of the hit chance. This actually means that if your hit chance is a measly two percent, half of your hits will be perfect. If your hit chance is less than one percent, you must first get that hit, before it can become a perfect one. A perfect hit will always do exactly 300% of the average damage (tiny intentional error, it is base damage).
 ==Range==
@@ Line 86: / Line 87: @@
 Example: A battleship (400m resolution on guns) fires on a frigate (40m radius). Target size divided by gun size gives us 40m / 400m = 0.1, or 10%. When the battleship fires on the frigate it can thus only use 10% of its actual tracking value (which is already low), due to the size differance. This is why it is so freakin hard to hit small things with big guns (if they are moving).
-Example 2: An Incursion Machariel with 3 Tracking Enhancer II's and T2 large autocannons have a tracking value of 0.067rad/sec. While shooting at a Sansha frigate (49m size), its real tracking value is only 49m / 400m = 0.1225 or 12% of the stated one, 0.067rad/sec x 0.1225 =
+Example 2: An Incursion Machariel with three T2 Tracking Enhancer and T2 large autocannons have a tracking value of 0.067rad/sec. While shooting at a Sansha frigate (49m size), its tracking value in practice is only 49m / 400m = 0.1225 or 12% of the stated one, 0.067rad/sec x 0.1225 = 0.0082rad/sec. A typical Sansha frigate orbits at 14km at roughly 500m/s, that corresponds to an angular velocity of 500m/s / 14000m = 0.036rad/sec. Although this is half of the written tracking value, it is over 4 times higher than the Machariels practical tracking value against that a small target, so it becomes almost impossible to hit. No wonder why incursion fleets love webs.
-.0082rad/sec. A typical Sansha frigate orbits at 14km at roughly 500m/s, that corresponds to an angular velocity of 500m/s / 14000m = 0.036rad/sec. Which is over 4 times higher than the Machariels tracking value and practically impossible to hit. No wonder why incursion fleets love webs (tracking links are nice too).
 ==Grouping guns, does it affect the damage?==
 No. Even if the guns are grouped on your screen, they are still treated separately. This can be seen by collecting damage data and comparing that with the normal expected damage distribution, its very clear that its a combination of several seperate turret shots. It can also be deduced by looking at the turret group's damage output when shooting at hard to hit objects, like things deep into falloff, its quite easy to tell when one, two or more guns hit the target.
+==Does a Target Painter help turrets?==
+Since these modules increases the targets signature size, it means that turrets will have an easier way to track the victim. Improving tracking with +20% has the same effect as increasing a targets size with +20%. It is noteworthy that a T2 Target Painter with full skills give a +37.5% boost and help your friends too, while a T2 Tracking Computer (with tracking script) gives +30% (but it can swap to increased range scripts, can't miss and need less cap).
@@ Line 348: / Line 351: @@
 **Modified base damage x 3 = 68.5
-The collected data shows that the normal damage is distributed within 50%-149%. Since the first 1% unit is used for critical rolls (this is most likely, if the last % unit was used additional calculations will be needed if the to hit chance is less than 1%).
+The collected data shows that the normal damage is distributed within 50%-149%. Since the first 1% unit is used for critical rolls (this is most likely, if the last % unit was used additional calculations will be needed if the to hit chance is less than 1%), the constant added to the damage roll should be 0.49.