Difference between revisions of "User:Cassiel Seraphim/Sandbox8"

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= Minimum skills =
+
= Timeline =
The following skills are the minimum skills needed to use the fits we use for incursions. For more information on what the different skills do, see the [[Support_Skills#Skills|support skills]] page. The training times listed for these will assume that you trained {{sk|Cybernetics|I}} and got a cheap set of '''+3 attribute implants''', which is not only reasonable but highly recommended regardless what you plan on doing in EVE. There's even [[The +3 Implants Program]] for unistas to get started.
+
Below is a timeline showing the various periods of Incursions as events, as well as highlights of important dates regarding our community.
{{note box|The majority of the skills we ask you to train are core fitting and support skills that'll help you fit and fly most ships better. Even the combat skills are mostly general gunnery or drone support skills you'd train as well if you did anything combat related in EVE.}}
+
{| cellspacing="0" style="border:1px dashed #333333; font-size:90%; text-align:center; vertical-align:middle; padding:10px; margin:10px; background:#151515;"
== Damage dealers ==
+
|-
Getting the minimum skills for a damage dealer requires a couple of months worth of training, if you train into a turret-based battleship on a brand new character.
+
| nowrap colspan="2" | <small>''"Introducing Incursions"''</small><br>[[#January 2011 - Introducing Incursions|January 2011]]<br>&darr;
 +
| nowrap colspan="2" | <small>''"Balance restored"''</small><br>[[#June 2012 - Balance restored|June 2012]]<br>&darr;
 +
| nowrap colspan="2" | <small>''"Battlecruisers retired"''</small><br>[[#July 2013 - Battlecruisers retired|July 2013]]<br>&darr;
 +
| nowrap colspan="2" | <small>''"Scout sites revamped"''</small><br>[[#August 2014 - Scout sites revamped|August 2014]]<br>&darr;
 +
|-
 +
| style="width:70px; background:grey; padding:0px; border:0px;" | <p style="font-size:20%;">&nbsp;</p>
 +
| style="width:70px; background:limegreen; padding:0px; border:0px;" |
 +
| style="width:70px; background:firebrick; padding:0px; border:0px;" |
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| style="width:70px; background:darksalmon; padding:0px; border:0px;" |
 +
| style="width:70px; background:royalblue; padding:0px; border:0px;" |
 +
| style="width:70px; background:limegreen; padding:0px; border:0px;" |
 +
| style="width:70px; background:SeaGreen; padding:0px; border:0px;" |
 +
| style="width:70px; background:limegreen; padding:0px; border:0px;" |
 +
|-
 +
| nowrap |
 +
| nowrap colspan="2" | &uarr;<br>[[#April 2012 - The Dead Zone|April 2012]]<br><small>''"The Dead Zone"''</small>
 +
| nowrap colspan="2" | &uarr;<br>[[#November 2012 - Incursions wiki reborn|November 2012]]<br><small>''"Incursions wiki reborn"''</small>
 +
| nowrap colspan="2" | &uarr;<br>[[#January 2014 - Accolades|January 2014]]<br><small>''"Accolades"''</small>
 +
|}
 +
 
 +
== August 2014 - Scout sites revamped ==
 +
In an attempt to bring scout sites back into the fold they received a substantial revamp. Changes were also done to the spawn mechanics of assault sites, as a stopgap measure for fixing the [[Nation Consolidation Network]] assault site. They also lowered the respawn time of Incursions, making them spawn again at a faster pace.
 +
==== Patches & devblogs ====
 +
From the devblog [http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/incursion-changes-in-hyperion/ Incursion changes in Hyperion] (August 19th, 2014):
 +
{{quote|
 +
'''Reducing the re-spawn time of Incursions'''
 +
 
 +
Right now when an Incursion finishes there is between a 24 and 48 hour delay until another Incursion spawns in the same security space replacing the one that ended. For example, if all of the Incursions in high sec are completed within a short time span of each other, it means that for a period of time there will be no Incursion in high sec.
 +
 
 +
This change is aimed at helping make sure that Incursion runners will always have them available when they log in. You may have to move to get to it, but at least the option is there for you to go do it.
 +
 
 +
More specifically we are reducing the min and max time between an Incursion being completed and it re-spawning elsewhere from 24 and 48 hours respectively to 12 and 36 hours respectively.
 +
 +
 
 +
'''A revamp of scout sites'''
 +
 
 +
Scout sites are the lowest level of Incursions site available for players to run. When Incursions first launched their goal was to provide an environment for introducing players to Incursions. When we look at metrics such as how often these sites are run, who runs them, and then talk to players from the Incursion community it becomes fairly obvious that Scout sites are not achieving their original goal. Time for a rebalance!
 +
 
 +
While looking at them we decided to change their purpose from being an introduction to Incursions to something you could run while waiting for a spot in a fleet running Vanguards or when you don't quite have enough people to run Vanguards.
 +
 
 +
To achieve that goal we bumped up their rewards from 50,000 ISK to 3,500,000 ISK and from 50 LP to 400 LP per pilot, still keeping them less desirable to run than Vanguards. We then also adjusted the number and types of NPC you find in the Scout sites to balance out the increased reward.
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Putting an end to the NCN wall'''
 +
 
 +
If you regularly run assault sites in Incursions you may be familiar with a term known as “NCN wall.” This generally means that the system with assault sites only has Nation Communication Network (NCN) sites available to run. We are making a change that will make sure assault systems are never 100% NCN's.}}
 +
Addendum (August 20th):
 +
{{quote|
 +
'''Null sec Vanguard sites'''
 +
 
 +
The following is an update to the original dev blog. We were still working out the details and ensuring it could be completed for Hyperion. We are now confident it will ship and have updated the dev blog to reflect this additional change.
  
Considering that is far more likely that you come looking for incursions after you have played the game for at least a couple of weeks, having trained some of the support skills already (the tutorial mentions many of them), you can often get ready much faster. Add to that the potential of neural remapping and what might seem like a daunting train can be covered in no-time.
+
Incursions in null sec are almost identical to high sec. One of the only differences, aside from the space they are in, is the rewards. Null sec Incursions pay out approximately 25% more per pilot. OK so in theory null sec Incursions should pay more per hour then. Well not really. Since people running high sec Incursions feel a lot safer while running the Incursions they tend to bring much more expensive ships and fittings. The net result is null sec Incursions get run at such a slower speed that the per hour pay is a lot lower than we would like.
  
These minimum skills will allow you to fly any of the '''minimum battleship fits''' for [[Vanguard Incursion fits#Battleships|vanguards]] and [[Assault Incursion fits#Battleships|assaults]].
+
We could just increase the ISK payout and be done with it. However an idea was proposed that we feel would be a much nicer way to balance null sec Incursions. We are going to increase the maximum number of pilots allowed in Vanguard sites from 10 to 15 while keeping the per pilot payout the same. With the ability to bring more pilots the effective DPS goes up and the speed of running the sites should increase as well. So while we get to bring the speed of running the Incursions more in line with high sec we also encourage more pilots to participate.
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size:90%; text-align:center; padding:1px;"
 
! [[file:icon_cogs.png|32px|link=]] Core skills
 
! [[file:icon_cog.png|32px|link=]] Utility skills
 
! [[file:icon_gunnery_turret.png|32px|link=]] Gunnery skills
 
! [[file:icon_ship.png|32px|link=]] Ship skills
 
! [[File:Icon drones.png|32px|link=]] Drone skills
 
|- valign="top" style="background:#222222;"
 
| ~ 13 days and 1 hour
 
| ~ 8 days and 18 hours
 
| ~ 22 days and 9 hours
 
| ~ 5 days and 8 hours
 
| ~ 13 days
 
|- valign="top"
 
| style="padding:8px;" nowrap |
 
Cybernetics I<br>
 
CPU Management IV<br>
 
Power Grid Management IV<br>
 
Mechanics IV<br>
 
Weapon Upgrades IV<br>
 
Capacitor Management IV<br>
 
Capacitor Systems Operation IV<br>
 
Shield Upgrades IV<small>&nbsp;<ref><strong>Shield Operation IV</strong> is required for the <strong>EM Shield Compensation</strong> skill.</ref></small><br>
 
Shield Operation IV<small>&nbsp;<ref><strong>Shield Operation IV</strong> is required for the <strong>EM Shield Compensation</strong> skill.</ref></small><br>
 
Shield Management III<br>
 
Hull Upgrades IV<small>&nbsp;<ref><strong>Hull Upgrades IV</strong> is required to fit the '''Damage Control II''' module.</ref></small>
 
| style="padding:8px;" nowrap |
 
Signature Analysis IV<br>
 
Long Range Targeting IV<br>
 
Target Management IV<br>
 
Propulsion Jamming III<small>&nbsp;<ref><strong>Propulsion Jamming</strong> is a needed to use a stasis webifier.</ref></small><br>
 
Target Painting III<small>&nbsp;<ref>'''Target Painting III''' is only needed if you'll use a Target Painter module.</ref></small><br>
 
Jury Rigging III<small>&nbsp;<ref>'''Jury Rigging III''' is a required for the '''Shield Rigging''' skill.</ref></small><br>
 
Shield Rigging III<br>
 
Tactical Shield Manipulation IV<br>
 
EM Shield Compensation III
 
| style="padding:8px;" nowrap |
 
Gunnery V<br>
 
Motion Prediction IV<br>
 
Rapid Firing IV<br>
 
Sharpshooter IV<br>
 
Surgical Strike IV<br>
 
Trajectory Analysis IV<br>
 
Controlled Bursts IV<small>&nbsp;<ref>'''Controlled Bursts''' is useful for all hybrids and energy turrets, but useless for projectiles as they do not use cap to fire.</ref></small><br>
 
Small <racial> Turret III<small>&nbsp;<ref><strong>Small <racial> Turret III</strong> is a starter skill, but this is included in case you have to crosstrain into another race''s weapon system.</ref></small><br>
 
Medium <racial> Turret III<br>
 
Large <racial> Turret III
 
| style="padding:8px;" |
 
<racial> Frigate III<small>&nbsp;<ref><strong><racial> Frigate III</strong> is a starter skill,  but this is included in case you have to crosstrain out of your initial race.</ref></small><br>
 
<racial> Destroyer III<br>
 
<racial> Cruiser III<br>
 
<racial> Battlecruiser III<br>
 
Spaceship Command IV<br>
 
<racial> Battleship III<br>
 
Warp Drive Operation III<br>
 
Evasive Maneuvering III<br>
 
Afterburner III<small>&nbsp;<ref>'''Afterburner III''' is required for '''High Speed Maneuvering'''.</ref></small><br>
 
High Speed Maneuvering II<small>&nbsp;<ref>'''High Speed Maneuvering''' is required to fit the '''Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I''' module for headquarter sites.</ref></small>
 
| style="padding:8px;" nowrap |
 
Drones V<br>
 
Light Drone Operation V<br>
 
Amarr Drone Specialization III<small>&nbsp;<ref>'''Drones V''', '''Light Drone Operation V''' and '''Amarr Drone Specialization I''' is required to use Acolyte II. Consider training '''Medium Drone Operation V''' to be able to use Infiltrator II drones as well. It's acceptable to skip this skill initially if you can use other drones, like Warrior II drones. But training this up only takes 20 hours.</ref></small><br>
 
Drone Interfacing III<br>
 
Drone Navigation III<br>
 
Drone Sharpshooting III<br>
 
Drone Avionics III<br>
 
Drone Durability I<small>&nbsp;<ref><strong>Drone Durability I</strong> is required to use shield maintenance drones.</ref></small><br>
 
Repair Drone Operation II<small>&nbsp;<ref><strong>Repair Drone Operation II</strong> is required to use light and medium shield maintenance drones. If you have room for heavies they require <strong>Repair Drone Operation III</strong>.</ref></small><br>
 
Shield Emission Systems III<small>&nbsp;<ref><strong>Shield Emission System III</strong> is required to use shield maintenance drones.</ref></small>
 
|- valign="top" style="background:#222222;"
 
| colspan=5 | ~ 62 days, 12 hours and 5 minutes worth of training in total
 
|}
 
<small><references/></small>
 
  
== Logistics ==
+
This change will only effect null sec Vanguard sites for now. Once this goes live we will monitor closely and see if this actually makes a difference in the way we want. If everything goes well we will consider applying the change to other sites as well and possibly low sec. If everything goes horribly wrong we may also revert the change. For now though we are looking forward to seeing how this plays out on TQ come Hyperion's release.}}
Training for logistics is considerably more time-consuming than that of a regular damage dealer. Please remember that when you think the above mentioned skills for a damage dealer is a long train. The bare minimum to make the logistics ships work is '''Logistics IV''', there is practically no way to make these ships function with lower skills than that. The reason for that is because the skill heavily influences the cap usage of remote repair modules as well as capacitor transmitters.
 
  
It takes almost three months to get good enough skills to fly a '''minimum''' [[Vanguard Incursion fits#Logistics|logistics fit]] and you should try to skill up and upgrade to the '''recommended''' fit as soon as possible. The repping power of meta four remote shield boosters are inferior to that of the tech two variant, so moving out of the minimum fit should be a high priority.
+
From the [http://community.eveonline.com/news/patch-notes/patch-notes-for-hyperion/ Hyperion 1.0 Patch Notes] (August 26th, 2014):
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size:90%; text-align:center; padding:1px;"
+
{{quote|
! [[file:icon_cogs.png|32px|link=]] Core skills
+
'''Missions & NPCs'''
! [[file:icon_cog.png|32px|link=]] Utility skills
 
! [[file:icon_shield_transporter_i.png|32px|link=]] Logistics skills
 
! [[file:icon_ship.png|32px|link=]] Ship skills
 
! [[File:Icon drones.png|32px|link=]] Drone skills
 
|- valign="top" style="background:#222222;"
 
| ~ 10 days and 9 hours
 
| ~ 25 days and 22 hours
 
| ~ 6 days and 11 hours
 
| ~ 32 days and 23 hours
 
| ~ 5 days and 16 hours
 
|- valign="top" nowrap
 
| style="padding:8px;" nowrap |
 
Cybernetics I<br>
 
CPU Management IV<br>
 
Power Grid Management IV<br>
 
Mechanics IV<br>
 
Capacitor Management IV<br>
 
Capacitor Systems Operation IV<br>
 
Energy Grid Upgrades II<small>&nbsp;<ref>'''Energy Grid Upgrades II''' is required for the reactor controls and power diagnostic modules.</ref></small><br>
 
Shield Upgrades IV<small>&nbsp;<ref><strong>Shield Upgrades IV</strong> is a requirement for the <strong>Large Shield Extender II</strong> modules. Only <strong>Basilisk</strong> pilots need this, <strong>scimitar</strong> pilots will not need it.</ref></small><br>
 
Shield Management III<br>
 
Hull Upgrades IV<small>&nbsp;<ref><strong>Hull Upgrades IV</strong> is required to fit the <strong>Damage Control II</strong> module. <strong>Scimitar</strong> pilots could initially skip this.</ref></small>
 
| style="padding:8px;" nowrap |
 
Signature Analysis V<small>&nbsp;<ref name="logistics">'''Signature Analysis V''' and '''Long Range Targeting V''' is a requirement for the '''Logistics''' skill.</ref></small><br>
 
Long Range Targeting V<small>&nbsp;<ref name="logistics"></ref></small><br>
 
Target Management V<small>&nbsp;<ref>'''Target Management V''' is a requirement for '''Advanced Target Management'''.</ref></small><br>
 
Advanced Target Management III<br>
 
Jury Rigging III<small>&nbsp;<ref>'''Jury Rigging III''' is a required for the '''Shield Rigging''' skill.</ref></small><br>
 
Shield Rigging III<small>&nbsp;<ref><strong>Shield Rigging</strong> is only needed if you use shield rigs, so <strong>scimitar</strong> pilots can skip this.</ref></small><br>
 
Tactical Shield Manipulation IV
 
| style="padding:8px;" nowrap |
 
Shield Emission Systems IV<br>
 
Capacitor Emission Systems IV<small>&nbsp;<ref><strong>Capacitor Emission Systems IV</strong> is only required if you fly a <strong>Basilisk</strong> with remote capacitor transfer modules, the <strong>Scimitar</strong> does not need this skill.</ref></small><br>
 
Sensor Linking IV<small>&nbsp;<ref><strong>Sensor Linking</strong> is only required if you can fit and reduce the cap usage for the <strong>Remote Tracking Computer II</strong> module.</ref></small>
 
| style="padding:8px;" nowrap |
 
<racial> Frigate III<small>&nbsp;<ref><strong><racial> Frigate III</strong> is a starter skill,  but this is included in case you have to crosstrain out of your initial race.</ref></small><br>
 
<racial> Destroyer III<br>
 
<racial> Cruiser V<br>
 
Logistics IV<br>
 
Evasive Maneuvering III<br>
 
Warp Drive Operation III<br>
 
Afterburner III
 
| style="padding:8px;" nowrap |
 
Drones V<br>
 
Drone Durability I<small>&nbsp;<ref><strong>Drone Durability I</strong> is required to use shield maintenance drones.</ref></small><br>
 
Repair Drone Operation II<small>&nbsp;<ref><strong>Repair Drone Operation II</strong> is required to use light and medium shield maintenance drones.</ref></small><br>
 
Drone Navigation III<br>
 
Drone Avionics III<br>
 
{{co|grey|Shield Emission Systems III<small>&nbsp;<ref><strong>Shield Emission Systems III</strong> is enough for maintenance drones, but <strong>Shield Emission Systems IV</strong> is already required <strong>Remote Shield Booster II</strong> modules.</ref></small>}}
 
|- valign="top" style="background:#222222;"
 
| colspan=5 | ~ 81 days, 9 hours and 44 minutes worth of training in total
 
|}
 
<small><references/></small>
 
  
== Universal skills ==
+
* Incursion Scout sites have been rebalanced to be more in line with the risk vs reward of the other Incursion sites. Sansha presence has been increased within them and they now pay out 3,500,000 ISK and 400 LP.}}
Apart from the critical skills listed above, there are a few skills that you should get as soon as possible. We rely on offgrid boosters and as such we need people with leadership skills to pass boosts down the fleet hierarchy. Being able to overheat can often save your ship when something bad happens. Basic navigation skills helps mitigate align times and capacitor consumption from propulsion modules or from initiating warp. Having the skills to use the microwarpdrive and cloak trick for safer travel is also handy and recommended.
+
==== Effect on the community ====
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size:90%; text-align:center; padding:1px;"
+
To be determined :)
! [[file:icon_fleet.png|32px|link=]] Wing Commander
 
! [[file:icon_damage_therm.png|32px|link=]] Thermodynamics
 
! [[file:Module icon microwarpdrive tech1.png|32px|link=]] Navigation
 
! [[file:icon_cloak.png|32px|link=]] MWD + Cloak trick
 
|- valign="top" style="background:#222222;"
 
| ~ 6 days and 16 hours
 
| ~ 2 days and 20 hours
 
| ~ 9 days and 17 hours
 
| ~ 1 day and 19 hours
 
|- valign="top"
 
| style="padding:8px;" nowrap |
 
Leadership V<br>
 
Wing Command III
 
| style="padding:8px;" nowrap |
 
{{co|grey|Power Grid Management IV<small>&nbsp;<ref>'''Power Grid Management IV''' is required to train the '''Thermodynamics''' but is already covered by the minimum skills already.</ref></small>}}<br>
 
Science IV<small>&nbsp;<ref>'''Science IV''' is required to for the '''Thermodynamics''' skill.</ref></small><br>
 
Thermodynamics III
 
| style="padding:8px;" nowrap |
 
Acceleration Control IV<small>&nbsp;<ref name="ab">Mostly for '''logistics'''-pilots, but generally applies to anyone who uses an '''afterburner'''.</ref></small><br>
 
Afterburner IV<small>&nbsp;<ref name="ab"></ref></small><br>
 
Evasive Maneuvering IV<br>
 
Fuel Conservation IV<small>&nbsp;<ref name="ab"></ref></small><br>
 
Navigation IV<br>
 
Warp Drive Operation IV
 
| style="padding:8px;" |
 
High Speed Maneuvering III<br>
 
Cloaking III
 
|}
 
<small><references/></small>
 

Revision as of 13:22, 22 August 2014

Timeline

Below is a timeline showing the various periods of Incursions as events, as well as highlights of important dates regarding our community.

"Introducing Incursions"
January 2011
"Balance restored"
June 2012
"Battlecruisers retired"
July 2013
"Scout sites revamped"
August 2014

 


April 2012
"The Dead Zone"

November 2012
"Incursions wiki reborn"

January 2014
"Accolades"

August 2014 - Scout sites revamped

In an attempt to bring scout sites back into the fold they received a substantial revamp. Changes were also done to the spawn mechanics of assault sites, as a stopgap measure for fixing the Nation Consolidation Network assault site. They also lowered the respawn time of Incursions, making them spawn again at a faster pace.

Patches & devblogs

From the devblog Incursion changes in Hyperion (August 19th, 2014):

Reducing the re-spawn time of Incursions

Right now when an Incursion finishes there is between a 24 and 48 hour delay until another Incursion spawns in the same security space replacing the one that ended. For example, if all of the Incursions in high sec are completed within a short time span of each other, it means that for a period of time there will be no Incursion in high sec.

This change is aimed at helping make sure that Incursion runners will always have them available when they log in. You may have to move to get to it, but at least the option is there for you to go do it.

More specifically we are reducing the min and max time between an Incursion being completed and it re-spawning elsewhere from 24 and 48 hours respectively to 12 and 36 hours respectively.


A revamp of scout sites

Scout sites are the lowest level of Incursions site available for players to run. When Incursions first launched their goal was to provide an environment for introducing players to Incursions. When we look at metrics such as how often these sites are run, who runs them, and then talk to players from the Incursion community it becomes fairly obvious that Scout sites are not achieving their original goal. Time for a rebalance!

While looking at them we decided to change their purpose from being an introduction to Incursions to something you could run while waiting for a spot in a fleet running Vanguards or when you don't quite have enough people to run Vanguards.

To achieve that goal we bumped up their rewards from 50,000 ISK to 3,500,000 ISK and from 50 LP to 400 LP per pilot, still keeping them less desirable to run than Vanguards. We then also adjusted the number and types of NPC you find in the Scout sites to balance out the increased reward.


Putting an end to the NCN wall

If you regularly run assault sites in Incursions you may be familiar with a term known as “NCN wall.” This generally means that the system with assault sites only has Nation Communication Network (NCN) sites available to run. We are making a change that will make sure assault systems are never 100% NCN's.

Addendum (August 20th):

Null sec Vanguard sites

The following is an update to the original dev blog. We were still working out the details and ensuring it could be completed for Hyperion. We are now confident it will ship and have updated the dev blog to reflect this additional change.

Incursions in null sec are almost identical to high sec. One of the only differences, aside from the space they are in, is the rewards. Null sec Incursions pay out approximately 25% more per pilot. OK so in theory null sec Incursions should pay more per hour then. Well not really. Since people running high sec Incursions feel a lot safer while running the Incursions they tend to bring much more expensive ships and fittings. The net result is null sec Incursions get run at such a slower speed that the per hour pay is a lot lower than we would like.

We could just increase the ISK payout and be done with it. However an idea was proposed that we feel would be a much nicer way to balance null sec Incursions. We are going to increase the maximum number of pilots allowed in Vanguard sites from 10 to 15 while keeping the per pilot payout the same. With the ability to bring more pilots the effective DPS goes up and the speed of running the sites should increase as well. So while we get to bring the speed of running the Incursions more in line with high sec we also encourage more pilots to participate.

This change will only effect null sec Vanguard sites for now. Once this goes live we will monitor closely and see if this actually makes a difference in the way we want. If everything goes well we will consider applying the change to other sites as well and possibly low sec. If everything goes horribly wrong we may also revert the change. For now though we are looking forward to seeing how this plays out on TQ come Hyperion's release.

From the Hyperion 1.0 Patch Notes (August 26th, 2014):

Missions & NPCs

  • Incursion Scout sites have been rebalanced to be more in line with the risk vs reward of the other Incursion sites. Sansha presence has been increased within them and they now pay out 3,500,000 ISK and 400 LP.

Effect on the community

To be determined :)