Difference between revisions of "User:Chris Halsky/Terrible Abyss Guide"
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* Karen - hits hard, so as always - keep transversal up | * Karen - hits hard, so as always - keep transversal up | ||
* Sansha room - Neuts are absolute priority. Devoted Knights with few Smiths will drain you very fast, you should prioritize them and stay at range initially | * Sansha room - Neuts are absolute priority. Devoted Knights with few Smiths will drain you very fast, you should prioritize them and stay at range initially | ||
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| + | == Step 5 - Garm of hounds == | ||
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| + | Fit goes here <br><br> | ||
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| + | Write something smart. | ||
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Revision as of 15:06, 4 February 2024
TAG!
Well, time for my own Abyss guide. Because why not :)
General idea - take a ship, make 50 runs, and that will give you enough ISK to upgrade for another Tier. It doesn't work as well as I intended, and I need to stretch the definition of "afford to upgrade". What does work though - each ship as described here is very safe. I did dozens of runs so far on each Tier, and never lost a ship (currently running T2s, it might change with higher Tiers!). Fits are also overtanked, and last section (coming in the late, late future) will use this fact.
So far we got:
- T0 - ships costs about 31M, and makes about 770k / run. It's terrible, but it's a first step. Payback is 3h - not bad. You will need approximately 50 runs to upgrade into T1 (ship stays the same).
- T1 - ship is about 90M, which is expensive. It makes about 3.2M per run, and payback is 8h. You will need just a bit over 60 runs to get new ship for T2s (if you factor sale of T1 ship - 50 runs might be enough)
- T2 - ship is about 200M. Again, more than my ideal 50 runs, but it's a terrible guide ;) Currently it makes around 3.5M per run, and payback is 10h.
- T3 - 500M ISK spend. That's a significant investment, but it's comparable to other T3 ships, and is not that bad. After 80 runs on average it makes 6.7M ISK /run, with payback of 12.5h
Why?
Well, there are several good guides, I might as well make a Terrible one. Initial idea was to use Caldari missile ships and go for different Tiers in different ship sizes - but that doesn't really work as I'd like it, as when you go up a tier and also up a ship size, it gets more difficult, but not more profitable. So preferably you'd skip Tiers, but that's a bad idea - progression jumps way too hard, and I find it risky (as my friend said: "Too chicken for that")
The plan has changed then - to use only one ship 'family' - Caldari Cruisers with HAMs - and have progression going up in step-by-step way. I 'think' that Caracal -> Caracal Navy -> Cerberus offers good enough progression, so let's try to make it :)
Step 1 - you'll get bored
Prototype 'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I
Prototype 'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I
Prototype 'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I
Prototype 'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I
Prototype 'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I
Medium Clarity Ward Enduring Shield Booster
10MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner
Multispectrum Shield Hardener II
Large Compact Pb-Acid Cap Battery
X5 Enduring Stasis Webifier
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium EM Shield Reinforcer I
Hornet I x2
Scourge Heavy Assault Missile x10000
Tranquil Dark Filament x1
- Advanced Weapon Upgrades I
- Caldari Cruiser IV
- Energy Grid Upgrades IV
- Missile Lanucher Operation IV
- Heavy Assault Missiles IV
- Hull Upgrades IV
- Shield Management/Operation IV
- Tactical Shield Manipulation IV
See "Notes" for my stats in that fit.
Why would you run T0s in Caracal?
Well, good question, and I wouldn't - but it's a first step. Other missile ships do not have 'clean' progression, and I tried Abyss in Caldari Cruisers, going up step by step. Feel free to skip whatever step you don't like.
Running this one, given you have decent skills (and decent skills are generally needed - aim for IV in whatever looks like it fits) is super easy. Orbit cache (you might send drones to kill it), web stuff, shoot stuff, done. Fit is cap stable, and should have no issues at all in T0. Along the way start upgrading your fit towards T1 - when you feel like you're ready, go to T1 :)
Notable spawns:
- Ephialtes - will stay out of your web range - ram it. Just like that, Approach it with everything on, web it, kill it.
- Skybreaker - will mangle your drones if you are too close. Recall drones, web it, kill it.
- Orange cloud of Cap Issues - if you're inside you need to watch your cap. And do not run your Shield Booster all the time.
- White cloud of zoooom - while inside, you will not be able to recall your drones - they will fly past you. And you might run into the wall.
My runs: https://abysstracker.com/fit/15876
Step 2 - "Impecunious"
Prototype 'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I
Prototype 'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I
Prototype 'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I
Prototype 'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I
Prototype 'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I
Dread Guristas Medium Shield Booster
10MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner
Multispectrum Shield Hardener II
Large Compact Pb-Acid Cap Battery
X5 Enduring Stasis Webifier
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium EM Shield Reinforcer II
Caldari Navy Hornet x2
Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile x6
Calm Dark Filament
But it is bad!
This is just an evolution of T0 fit. It does have some upgrades though:
- Faction Drones and Ammo - as we need DPS. As much DPS as possible*
- Faction Shield Booster - it's better, and we need it for T2 anyway (edit: in the end I decided for different T2 fit. Sorry!)
- T2 rigs - as we need PG
It does need more time per run - assume that you need 50%-100% more to complete a run than T0s. So if you get T0 runs over 10:00 - get better missile skills, or you'll race the clock.
It flies almost the same as T0, with one exception - way less cap. It HAS TO be cap stable, to make easier runs - but if you encounter Neuts (rare in T1, but can happen) or Orange Cloud start switching your booster on and off - you'll need it anyway for higher tiers
Profitabliy: Not greatest. It is less profitable than T0 fit, if you collect only Bioadaptive Caches. Treat it as training exercise - we'll get to better runs later :)
Notable spawns:
- Leshak - orbit at 10km, and he won't hit you. Will move around, watch for red wall.
- Vila whatever - ignore swarmers completely, they can't hit anything.
- Karybdis Tyrannos - orbit at 15km and shoot with all you got.
- Tessera (drone BC) - will try to kill your drones. And it will do it fast. Do not send out drones.
- 3x Devoted Hunter - stay at range. They will hurt a bit, but if you remove them fast it will be ok.
- Attacker Marshal - will not break your tank. Uses missiles, so get close to web it - but keep moving fast.
- Devoted Knight - Neuts. Orbit at 20, so neuts are not so bad.
- Photic Abyssal Overmind - Drone BS. Will hit hard, but misses a lot - try to orbit them at 5km
- Cynabal - Neuts, Webs, and brings friends. Stay at 20km, shoot, when he gets close and webs you - web him back
My runs: https://abysstracker.com/fit/15927
| Variant | Min Time | Average Time | Max Time | Average ISK | Average ISK/h | Comment |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Default fit Navy Missiles, only Bioadaptive Cache looted |
6:29 | 8:16 | 9:52 | 1,04M | 7,5M | Average of 20 runs. All runs with T1 Dark fit, from 18.09 till 28.09 on Abyss Tracker. Run times are very consistent, and never went above 10:00. So I did trial number 2 below. |
| Cheaper runs Normal missiles, only Bioadaptive Cache |
6:30 | 8:49 | 11:10 | 1,42M | 9,66M | Marginally slower, but better ISK/h - due to lower missile price. Run times also generally consistent (slowest run - 2x Photic BS, which took some time). Next trial - with MTU. |
| Greedy Normal missiles, MTU to collect all nodes |
8:47 | 11:43 | 15:04 | 2,85M | 14,63M | Surprising. Significant time increase, but also ISK/h increase. |
My conclusion (feel free to disagree) - test your fit. If you are sure that longer run times will not be a problem - get T1/T2 ammo instead faction. If you are then sure you have enough time - start MTU shanenigans, even if it means a bit more time. It might not be that clear in higher tiers though.
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
10MN Monopropellant Enduring Afterburner
Multispectrum Shield Hardener II
Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery
X5 Enduring Stasis Webifier
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Medium Thermal Shield Reinforcer II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Caldari Navy Hornet x5
Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile x5000
Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile x5000
Agitated Dark Filament x1
Navy Caracal? Why is that?
Well, we need to reach DPS target, and normal Caracal was not enough. Fit is also a bit different:
- Deadspace Shield Booster. It's pricy, but I felt like it's needed (it should be possible to run without it, but I tend to patch my bad skills with ISK).
- Thermal rig instead of EM. Two reasons - first, EDENCOM ships deal Thermal damage, and they are not affected by turret penalty. Second - it aligns better with next steps, as EM will always be our worst resist.
- T2 Launchers - DPS!
Which missiles?
Good question! I didn't knew it myself before I started T2s. There are 2 options:
- Navy missiles + Rage against BSes - that seems to be good option, but eats a lot of ISK from every run
- Rage missiles only - the most "paper DPS", but worse application. But we have web, so maybe application is good?
There was no other way to be sure, than to test it! So I did - 20 runs of each method, to compare average run times and average ammo cost.
| Variant | Min Time | Average Time | Max Time | Consumables cost[1] | Comment |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Faction missiles, Rage only against BS | 8:29 | 10:30 | 13:01 | 900k | Almost 1M for missiles. Ooof, takes out quite a chunk of ISK. Only biocache looted. |
| Only Rage missiles. | 10:31 | 13:00 | 20:00+[2] | 98k | Definitely slower, but 800k saved per run. Doesn't mean much in ISK, but longer run time hurts a lot. Not worth it. |
Well, be reasonable. Rages are cheaper, but can't run everything - so use Faction ammo where necessary.
Notable spawns:
- Devoted Knight & 4x Devoted Hunters - will break your tank if you're not fast. Load Faction ammo, shoot Knight first
- 3x Cynabals - looks scary, but they will come close, and you're quite resistant to Neuts, so take them one by one and it's good. You will be webbed to stop though.
- Arrester Marshal - will web you and hit you hard. It is the perfect justification of Thermal rig - it 'almost' breaks your tank. Overheat if needed.
- 2x Tessera + 4x Webbing Tessellas - you should not approach them, let Tesselas come to you and kill them first. If you get 4x webbed between two Tessera, you'll have a problem
- Harrowing Vedmak + a lot of Damaviks - Vedmak will try to kite you. Either pilot to web it, or overheat your web to get more range
My runs: https://abysstracker.com/fit/16599
What about Exotic?
Ha, good question! Since we're running Scourge missiles (why change, when next step has Cerberus that is Kinteic locked anyway?), Exotic Abyss looks promising. Expectations:
- More DPS = faster clear times.
- Kinetic penalty = more damage taken.
- No range penalty = much more damage taken!
- We're slower = a bit more damage taken, but that's not the issue. We will travel for longer, so longer clear times?
- Better web efficiency - enemies in Darks move 50% faster (kinda, it's complex) when webbed, in Exotics not - so webs will be fully effective
Hard to say if it's better or not, or if it's even feasible. Should be, but nothing can't be said without 20 test runs :)
Exotic notes:
- Faster run times due to 'better' DPS, lower ammo use, but tank is a bit weaker
- It is worth having Standard Blue Pill in cargo, just in case of difficult spawns
| Variant | Min Time | Average Time | Max Time | Consumables cost | Comment |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Exotics, 40 runs | 6:51 | 09:12 | 12:10 | ~750k | As expected. Exotics are quite good with heavy Kinetic bonus. |
Notable spawns:
- 2x Devoted Knight - they will apply much sooner, and they will break your tank. Overheat liberally, get close to kill one ASAP
Step 4 - Κέρβερος
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Pith B-Type Large Shield Booster
Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery
X5 Enduring Stasis Webifier
X5 Enduring Stasis Webifier
10MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner
Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Inherent Implants 'Squire' Power Grid Management EG-603
Medium EM Shield Reinforcer II
Medium Bay Loading Accelerator II
Caldari Navy Hornet x3
Nanite Repair Paste x50
Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile x8000
Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile x2000
Standard Blue Pill Booster x1
Fierce Dark Filament x1
Multispectrum Shield Hardener II x1
- Heavy Assault Cruisers IV
- Heavy Assault Missiles Sepcialization IV
- Warhead Upgrades IV
- Other missiles skills at IV
- Shiemd Management V
- Shield Operation V
- Shield Compensation V
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Pith B-Type Large Shield Booster
Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery
X5 Enduring Stasis Webifier
Multispectrum Shield Hardener II x1
10MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner
Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Inherent Implants 'Squire' Power Grid Management EG-603
Medium EM Shield Reinforcer II
Medium Bay Loading Accelerator II
Caldari Navy Hornet x3
Nanite Repair Paste x50
Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile x8000
Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile x2000
Standard Blue Pill Booster x1
Fierce Dark Filament x1
X5 Enduring Stasis Webifier
- Heavy Assault Cruisers IV
- Heavy Assault Missiles Sepcialization IV
- Warhead Upgrades IV
- Other missiles skills at IV
- Shiemd Management V
- Shield Operation V
- Shield Compensation V
Cerberus. Big leap in investment - T3 variant is almost 500M.
General strategy: Remove bigest threats, go to biocache (optional - drop MTU and send drones for side loot), loot, go towards gate. Ideally you want to be at gate when killing last enemies. Some tend to stay just outside of your web range, so chasing them around might be necessary - it's faster to move towards enemy to web it that to linger at the gate for longer. Additionally it's beneficial to loot biocache on the way towards larger enemies, as it saves time by not needing to go back, and you generally need to approach at an angle anyway.
Notable differences:
- More tank and more DPS - check skills in fit above for what I had when I did my runs
- Less capacitor excess - you need to manage your cap well. Shwitch Bosoter off if not needed, let capacitor recharge between rooms
- Way more range. No more hugging before you shoot - with 30km HAM range you can attack way sooner
- Drones are useless - send them out, but don't count on any meaningful DPS
Configurations:
Fit has Multispectrum Shield Hardener in cargo. The base idea was to have it in two main configurations:
- Double Web - for Darks (lower tank requirements, but web efficiency is lowered)
- Web + Hardener - for Exotics
| Variant | Time 80[1] | ISK/Run 80 | ISK/Hour 80 |
|---|---|---|---|
| Exotics, 40 runs | 9:55 | 8.62M | 52.13 M ISK/h |
| Darks, 40 runs | 11:00 | 7.51M | 40.94 M ISK/h |
- ^ From Abyss Tracker advanced stats
Notable spawns:
- 3x Cynabals (out of which 2 are Elite) - that did break my tank. I popped Blue Pill, and it was ok. Keep in mind that drawbacks (application and capacitor) might cause different problems, but I'd rather have cap management issues with lower DPS, than lose the ship completely. Pre-rolling Blue Pill is possible, but seems... excessive.
- Angel room - after few more encounters, it's perfectly doable if you keep your target priorities right (Cynabal before Elite Cynabal, Elite Hunters if in range before Cynabals, Furies). Do not approach them straight on, it's better to go 'sideways' and remove one from distance
- 3x Marshal - They hit a lot. Overheat booster as needed, orbit them at longer distance, kill one fast - after one is dead (Neuting ones are priority) it becomes easy
- 3x Leshak - not dangerous, but they 'startburst' from initial location. Close distance fast, kill the one running away from you if possible.
- Karen - hits hard, so as always - keep transversal up
- Sansha room - Neuts are absolute priority. Devoted Knights with few Smiths will drain you very fast, you should prioritize them and stay at range initially
Step 5 - Garm of hounds
Fit goes here
Write something smart.
