Difference between revisions of "Cargo Hauling with the Cloak Trick"
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== Points of Interest == | == Points of Interest == | ||
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| + | Some of the choices made during fittings might not be very clear. Below are some of the points considered when deciding which modules to fit where and why those modules satisfy the design goals. | ||
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=== Tanking === | === Tanking === | ||
Most people will notice that I have put no armor or shield tank in any of these fittings. In my experience any kind of traditional tank is an utter waste of time and can be extremely expensive. The reality is that industrial ships are paper thin and defenseless. If you get tackled it’s only a matter of time (normally mere seconds) before you are going to be destroyed as there is no method of retaliation that we can bring to bear upon our attackers. Even if you fit weapons they will not be up to the task of taking out a ship designed for combat. | Most people will notice that I have put no armor or shield tank in any of these fittings. In my experience any kind of traditional tank is an utter waste of time and can be extremely expensive. The reality is that industrial ships are paper thin and defenseless. If you get tackled it’s only a matter of time (normally mere seconds) before you are going to be destroyed as there is no method of retaliation that we can bring to bear upon our attackers. Even if you fit weapons they will not be up to the task of taking out a ship designed for combat. | ||
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Anyone who has taken a look at the tech 2 gear in Eve Online has probably noted how much more time and isk it takes to be able to use and afford. Normally they would not be viable options for new characters trying to fly ships as soon as possible with as few skill points as possible. In the case of some low power slot gear it turns out that instead of requiring a level 5 in the related skill it only needs a level 2. As such it’s extremely affordable and beneficial to get that second level in that skill in order to take advantage of the tech 2 versions of the gear we need. | Anyone who has taken a look at the tech 2 gear in Eve Online has probably noted how much more time and isk it takes to be able to use and afford. Normally they would not be viable options for new characters trying to fly ships as soon as possible with as few skill points as possible. In the case of some low power slot gear it turns out that instead of requiring a level 5 in the related skill it only needs a level 2. As such it’s extremely affordable and beneficial to get that second level in that skill in order to take advantage of the tech 2 versions of the gear we need. | ||
Even more so the T2 modules we are interested in use the same skill. | Even more so the T2 modules we are interested in use the same skill. | ||
| + | |||
== Industrial Ships by Race == | == Industrial Ships by Race == | ||
Following is a table we created while researching the builds that follow. Normally we would simply make one fitting for each ship with the exception of those industrial ships with the larger cargo holds. Those ships normally require more power grid than normal so we built a fitting for them and assumed the training of the skill {{sk|Power Grid Management|III|icon=yes}}. | Following is a table we created while researching the builds that follow. Normally we would simply make one fitting for each ship with the exception of those industrial ships with the larger cargo holds. Those ships normally require more power grid than normal so we built a fitting for them and assumed the training of the skill {{sk|Power Grid Management|III|icon=yes}}. | ||
Revision as of 19:58, 30 March 2014
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Summary
Hauling cargo from one star system to the next is a long and tedious job. Many players use alternative characters with dedicated skill sets to deliver their cargo for them. In order to achieve this we have to start from scratch; meaning the fewer skills we need to train the sooner we can get started hauling cargo.
If we are hauling an expensive payload we are at high risk of being a target for pirates looking for a slow and weak industrial ship to empty. This is a danger even in high security space. To combat this problem many strategies have been developed, one of the safest methods is the use of the Cloak Trick.
There is a great deal of information on which industrial ship is the best ship. When these evaluations are done however it is normally with respect to the size of the cargo which can be hauled in a single journey. If we can guarantee the safe arrival of our cargo on every trip then this is the end of the story. However that's not the case as New Eden is a very dangerous place and industrial ships are slow and fragile ships.
With that in mind our criteria for what constitutes the "best" ship isn't necessarily the largest cargo hold although that is still part of the equation. We value the ability to avoid detection and move as quickly as possible to prevent our location from becoming easily identified.
Our "best" cargo hauling ship is the one we believe will have the easiest time of surviving while still being accessible to new players.
Goals
The four points below outline the design goals for the fittings which are presented below. These goals are in order of relevance such that the first goal is mandatory and each subsequent goal is a best effort within the context of the previous goal.
For example in order to satisfy the first goal most ships need to also fit modules to enhance their powergrid which can only be done by sacrificing modules which increase cargo capacity. There is a bit of an exception where goal 2 is concerned; In some cases we gain significant improvement in cargo space or warp out time with just a little more training in skill.
- Fittings must use a “10MN Microwarpdrive I” as well as an “Improved Cloaking Device II”.
- Fittings must require as little training as possible to accommodate brand new characters.
- Fittings must accommodate as much cargo as possible.
- Fittings must maximize warp out time and warp speed velocity.
With these goals in mind we can find the best ship with the best fit for the newest of players with the least number of skill points.
Points of Interest
Some of the choices made during fittings might not be very clear. Below are some of the points considered when deciding which modules to fit where and why those modules satisfy the design goals.
Tanking
Most people will notice that I have put no armor or shield tank in any of these fittings. In my experience any kind of traditional tank is an utter waste of time and can be extremely expensive. The reality is that industrial ships are paper thin and defenseless. If you get tackled it’s only a matter of time (normally mere seconds) before you are going to be destroyed as there is no method of retaliation that we can bring to bear upon our attackers. Even if you fit weapons they will not be up to the task of taking out a ship designed for combat. Because of this we use the Cloak Trick. Instead of trying to absorb damage our goal here is to completely dodge it by being unavailable for targeting and warping out of the area almost instantly.
Inherent Problems of the MWD + Cloaking Trick
The two modules which are mandatory for the successful execution of the cloak trick is a “10MN Microwarpdrive I” as well as an “Improved Cloaking Device II”. These modules provide the correct modifies to our ships and anything less will spoil the effort. The details of the trick you can review in the wiki’s already linked. The biggest problem which faces a pilot trying to do use those two modules on a ship at the same time is power grid capacity. While some of the standard industrial ships can manage the industrial ships which have been “optimized” for extra cargo storage have serious problems. In order to combat this problem we need to fit modules and rigs (yes some ships NEED to have rigs while others gain a major benefit from them) which only slot into the same spots as our cargo expanding modules. As such it is literally a trade between cargo space and power grid.
Power Grid Management III
As our biggest problem is power grid it is worth noting that the Power Grid Management skill is of great importance. Although it takes extra time to train getting it to level three does not take very long. At the same time it greatly reduces the need to swap out cargo modules. This is really only necessary if you are going to fly the industrials which have larger default cargo holds though.
Nanofiber Internal Structure II vs Inertial Stabilizers II
There are some ships which have almost no problems with power grid and don’t actually benefit from cargo expanding modules. These ships are specialist ships which can only hold certain types of cargo, like ammunition. Their special cargo holds are massive, far larger than any standard cargo hold on any ship in this size class, while their normal cargo holds are about 500-550 cubic meters. As cargo hold expansion modules operate on a percentage basis the benefit they give these ships is insignificant. We take advantage of this fact to act on the fourth goal in our list of objectives. by fitting Nanofiber Internal Structure II’s and Inertial Stabilizers II we reduce the ships mass and increase its agility. This ultimately means a smaller warp out time which means less time spent in any particular place in space, cloaked or otherwise. While the Inertial Stabilizers have a stronger effect then the Internal Structures they also penalize your ship with a significant signature radius increase. This means if you happen to make a mistake and find yourself spending some time visible in space you will be much easier to target and will take more damage. I spent some time trying to balance the benefits against the penalties but as these two modules require the same skill level you can easily exchange them as you see fit.
Expanded Cargohold II vs Medium Cargohold Optimization I
These two modules are used in the low power slot and the ship rig slots respectively. They each increase your standard cargo hold by a percentage of its default size. They do come with penalties but these are related to armor, hull and speed which are all insignificant to us. The only important aspect is that the Expanded Cargohold II’s are more effective per unit than the Medium Cargohold Opimization I’s and as such we prefer to get our extra power grid from the rigs before using up the low slots.
Use of T2 equipment for new players
Anyone who has taken a look at the tech 2 gear in Eve Online has probably noted how much more time and isk it takes to be able to use and afford. Normally they would not be viable options for new characters trying to fly ships as soon as possible with as few skill points as possible. In the case of some low power slot gear it turns out that instead of requiring a level 5 in the related skill it only needs a level 2. As such it’s extremely affordable and beneficial to get that second level in that skill in order to take advantage of the tech 2 versions of the gear we need. Even more so the T2 modules we are interested in use the same skill.
Industrial Ships by Race
Following is a table we created while researching the builds that follow. Normally we would simply make one fitting for each ship with the exception of those industrial ships with the larger cargo holds. Those ships normally require more power grid than normal so we built a fitting for them and assumed the training of the skill 
Power Grid Management III.
Each ships statistics were derived from EFT using a “dummy character” with zero skill levels in any skill. The ships fittings which use power grid management 3 are noted in the title.
Summary Statistics by Race
All statistics were collected using EFT. I created two "dummy characters". The first with all skills set to level zero and the second with Power Grid Management III. The cost value for each ship is of course subject to change.
Caldari Summary
| Ship | Badger | Tayra | Tayra with PGM III |
| Skills | Caldari Industrial I | Caldari Industrial I | Caldari Industrial I |
| Hull Upgrades II | High Speed Maneuvering I | High Speed Maneuvering I | |
| High Speed Maneuvering I | Cloaking III | Cloaking III | |
| Cloaking III | Capacitor Management II | Capacitor Management II | |
| Astronautics Rigging I | Jury Rigging I | Jury Rigging I | |
| Powergrid Management III | |||
| Cargo (m^3) | 15675 | 7300 | 10079 |
| Vel (m/s) | 138 | 149 | 110 |
| Warp out (secs) | 21 | 25 | 25 |
| Warp speed (AU/s) | 4.5 | 3 | 3 |
| Cost (isk) | 12M | 21.4M | 20.8M |
Amarr Summary
| Ship | Sigil | Bestower | Bestower with PGM III |
| Skills | Amarr Industrial I | Amarr Industrial I | Amarr Industrial I |
| Hull Upgrades II | Hull Upgrades II | Hull Upgrades II | |
| High Speed Maneuvering I | High Speed Maneuvering I | High Speed Maneuvering I | |
| Cloaking III | Cloaking III | Cloaking III | |
| Astronautics Rigging I | Jury Rigging I | Jury Rigging I | |
| Capacitor Management II | Capacitor Management II | ||
| Powergrid Management III | |||
| Cargo (m^3) | 13721 | 9949 | 16173 |
| Vel (m/s) | 132 | 108 | 104 |
| Warp out (secs) | 20 | 25 | 25 |
| Warp speed (AU/s) | 4.5 | 3 | 3 |
| Cost (isk) | 13.3M | 22.5M | 23M |
Minmatar Summary
| Ship | Hoarder | Wreathe | Mammoth | Mammoth with PGM III |
| Ship Note | Ammo specialist | |||
| Skills | Minmatar Industrial I | Minmatar Industrial I | Minmatar Industrial I | Minmatar Industrial I |
| Hull Upgrades II | Hull Upgrades II | Capacitor Management II | Capacitor Management II | |
| High Speed Maneuvering I | High Speed Maneuvering I | Hull Upgrades II | Hull Upgrades II | |
| Cloaking III | Cloaking III | High Speed Maneuvering I | High Speed Maneuvering I | |
| Astronautics Rigging I | Astronautics Rigging I | Cloaking III | Cloaking III | |
| Jury Rigging I | Jury Rigging I | |||
| Powergrid Management III | ||||
| Cargo (m^3) | 500 | 14861 | 7013 | 11400 |
| Special Cargo (m^3) | 41000 | |||
| Vel (m/s) | 235 | 156 | 150 | 129 |
| Warp out (secs) | 13 | 17 | 21 | 21 |
| Warp speed (AU/s) | 5.2 | 4.5 | 3 | 3 |
| Cost (isk) | 9.7M | 12.7M | 22M | 22.7M |
Gallente Summary
| Ship | Nereus | Kryos | Epithal | Miasmos | Iteron Mark V | Iteron Mark V with PGM III |
| Ship Note | Mineral Specialist | Planetary Commodities | Ore Specialist | |||
| Skills | Gallente Industrial I | Gallente Industrial I | Gallente Industrial I | Gallente Industrial I | Gallente Industrial I | Gallente Industrial I |
| Hull Upgrades II | Capacitor Management II | Hull Upgrades II | Hull Upgrades II | Capacitor Management II | Capacitor Management II | |
| High Speed Maneuvering I | Hull Upgrades II | High Speed Maneuvering I | High Speed Maneuvering I | Hull Upgrades II | Hull Upgrades II | |
| Cloaking III | High Speed Maneuvering I | Cloaking III | Cloaking III | High Speed Maneuvering I | High Speed Maneuvering I | |
| Astronautics Rigging I | Cloaking III | Astronautics Rigging I | Jury Rigging I | Cloaking III | Cloaking III | |
| Jury Rigging I | Jury Rigging I | Jury Rigging I | Jury Rigging I | |||
| Cargo (m^3) | 13836 | 550 | 550 | 550 | 9429 | 12021 |
| Special Cargo (m^3) | 43000 | 43000 | 42000 | |||
| Vel (m/s) | 136 | 197 | 200 | 184 | 109 | 103 |
| Warp out (secs) | 18 | 15 | 14 | 14 | 23 | 23 |
| Warp speed (AU/s) | 4.5 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 |
| Cost (isk) | 12.6M | 21.9M | 18M | 22M | 22.6M | 22.9M |
Ship Fittings by Race
Caldari Industrial Fittings
MWD+Cloak Cargo
Improved Cloaking Device II
10MN Microwarpdrive I
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Medium Cargohold Optimization I
Medium Cargohold Optimization I
Medium Cargohold Optimization I
- Caldari Industrial I
- Hull Upgrades II
- High Speed Maneuvering I
- Cloaking III
- Astronautics Rigging I
MWD+Cloak Cargo
Improved Cloaking Device II
10MN Microwarpdrive I
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
- Caldari Industrial I
- High Speed Maneuvering I
- Cloaking III
- Capacitor Management II
- Jury Rigging I
MWD+Cloak Cargo w/PGM III
Improved Cloaking Device II
10MN Microwarpdrive I
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Expanded Cargohold I
Expanded Cargohold I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
- Caldari Industrial I
- High Speed Maneuvering I
- Cloaking III
- Capacitor Management II
- Jury Rigging I
- Powergrid Management III
Amarr Industrial Fittings
MWD+Cloak Cargo
Improved Cloaking Device II
10MN Microwarpdrive I
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Medium Cargohold Optimization I
Medium Cargohold Optimization I
Medium Cargohold Optimization I
- Amarr Industrial I
- Hull Upgrades II
- High Speed Maneuvering I
- Cloaking III
- Astronautics Rigging I
MWD+Cloak Cargo
Improved Cloaking Device II
10MN Microwarpdrive I
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
- Amarr Industrial I
- Hull Upgrades II
- High Speed Maneuvering I
- Cloaking III
- Jury Rigging I
- Capacitor Management II
MWD+Cloak Cargo w/PGM III
Improved Cloaking Device II
10MN Microwarpdrive I
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
- Amarr Industrial I
- Hull Upgrades II
- High Speed Maneuvering I
- Cloaking III
- Jury Rigging I
- Capacitor Management II
- Powergrid Management III
Minmatar Industrial Fittings
MWD+Cloak Ammo
Improved Cloaking Device II
10MN Microwarpdrive I
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I
Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I
Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I
- Minmatar Industrial I
- Hull Upgrades II
- High Speed Maneuvering I
- Cloaking III
- Astronautics Rigging I
MWD+Cloak Cargo
Improved Cloaking Device II
10MN Microwarpdrive I
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Medium Cargohold Optimization I
Medium Cargohold Optimization I
Medium Cargohold Optimization I
- Minmatar Industrial I
- Hull Upgrades II
- High Speed Maneuvering I
- Cloaking III
- Astronautics Rigging I
MWD+Cloak Cargo
Improved Cloaking Device II
10MN Microwarpdrive I
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Expanded Cargohold II
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
- Minmatar Industrial I
- Capacitor Management II
- Hull Upgrades II
- High Speed Maneuvering I
- Cloaking III
- Jury Rigging I
MWD+Cloak Cargo w/PGM III
Improved Cloaking Device II
10MN Microwarpdrive I
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
- Minmatar Industrial I
- Capacitor Management II
- Hull Upgrades II
- High Speed Maneuvering I
- Cloaking III
- Jury Rigging I
- Powergrid Management III
Gallente Industrial Fittings
Almost every Gallente industrial ship has major problems with power grid capacity. As such all but one of them requires the use of at least a few power grid modules. Even the use of Power Grid Management III was only marginally helpful.
MWD+Cloak Cargo
Improved Cloaking Device II
10MN Microwarpdrive I
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Medium Cargohold Optimization I
Medium Cargohold Optimization I
Medium Cargohold Optimization I
- Gallente Industrial I
- Hull Upgrades II
- High Speed Maneuvering I
- Cloaking III
- Astronautics Rigging I
MWD+Cloak Mineral
Improved Cloaking Device II
10MN Microwarpdrive I
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
- Gallente Industrial I
- Capacitor Management II
- Hull Upgrades II
- High Speed Maneuvering I
- Cloaking III
- Jury Rigging I
MWD+Cloak Planetary
Improved Cloaking Device II
10MN Microwarpdrive I
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Low Friction Nozzle Joints I
- Gallente Industrial I
- Hull Upgrades II
- High Speed Maneuvering I
- Cloaking III
- Astronautics Rigging I
- Jury Rigging I
MWD+Cloak Ore
Improved Cloaking Device II
10MN Microwarpdrive I
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Inertia Stabilizers II
Inertia Stabilizers II
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
- Gallente Industrial I
- Hull Upgrades II
- High Speed Maneuvering I
- Cloaking III
- Jury Rigging I
MWD+Cloak Cargo
Improved Cloaking Device II
10MN Microwarpdrive I
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
- Gallente Industrial I
- Capacitor Management II
- Hull Upgrades II
- High Speed Maneuvering I
- Cloaking III
- Jury Rigging I
MWD+Cloak Cargo w/PGM III
Improved Cloaking Device II
10MN Microwarpdrive I
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
- Gallente Industrial I
- Capacitor Management II
- Hull Upgrades II
- High Speed Maneuvering I
- Cloaking III
- Jury Rigging I
Conclusion
After all of that we have a pretty clear picture showing us the optimal choices available to us based upon different criteria. As a new character you may or may not have spare isk to spend but all new characters will have to consider time to train as a factor in the ship they choose to Haul cargo while cloaked.
If you are isk heavy than your primary concern is probably going to be cargo capacity. Apart from specialist cargo holds the two best fits for this category (in order) is the Bestower with PGM III at over 16k m^3 and then the Badger at just over 15k m^3. As the badger does not require the training of PGM III it is slightly faster to get into. It is also half the price of the Bestower.
For the purely budget conscious the Badger is still the best choice. Every other industrial ship is more expensive and the badger is only about a thousand cubic meters shy of having the largest hold as well.
