Difference between revisions of "History of EVE University"
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==Introduction== | ==Introduction== |
Revision as of 12:19, 15 February 2011
Introduction
Eve University is one of the oldest corporations in EvE. Unfortunately, the nature of the Uni -- 90% of the Uni's members have been in for under 2 months -- means that the history of the corp is quickly dispersed to a hundred other corporations. My hope is that we can collect some of the stories so people know what the Uni has done and been, and how it's changed over the years.
Morning Maniac gave a two-hour history lecture in March 2007: Eve University History, Past Present and Future. It covered the history of the Uni from its founding as a chat channel. Time passes, though -- half the Uni's history happened after this talk.
Founding
Eve University was founded 15 Mar 2004. MM had been answering questions in the Help channel, and wanted to provide something that was more helpful than what 'Help' had become. The heart of the operation was the Eve University public chat channel.
Early on, the principle was established that the Uni would remain neutral, so that students can have the widest possible choice of future corporations.
Incorporation
Early wardec announcement on CAOD, Oct 4 2005
This is interesting for several reasons. The first is the shift from helpful to slanging through the 13 pages of the thread. The second is that all of the same issues are being discussed five years later. This appears to be prior to the founding of The Big Blue.
Huff Corporation wardecs Eve University
The Big Blue Era
Eve University was, with NAGA, the Four Horsemen, and others, one of the founding corporations of The Big Blue alliance. The Big Blue (always with the definite article) was founded in October of 2005, and lasted until August of 2006. During this busy year, the alliance built two outposts in Geminate: the Blue Pill in BWF-ZZ, and Masada Station in 8MG-J6. In June of 2006, the Mercenary Coalition declared war on BLUE. A month later, The Four Horsemen withdrew from the alliance, removing much of The Big Blue's PvP power. Subsequently, attacks by Euphoria Unleashed and others rendered the situation untenable, and NAGA and Eve University dissolved the alliance and withdrew from the region. An interesting historical consequence is that the Uni's teamspeak server was hosted with NAGA until late 2009.
BLUE was interesting in that it maintained NRDS and a non-aggression policy -- a rarity in 0.0 space.
Subsequent to BLUE's withdrawal, BWF-ZZ has developed a reputation as a cursed system, which no group can hold onto for very long. Currently, Wildly Inappropriate holds BWF-ZZ.
It's also worth noting that BWF-ZZ is quite near the Uni's subsequent home in Korsiki, though a visit would be both dangerous and a violation of the Uni's rules.
see also Eve History's page on The Big Blue
And this "looking back' thread from 2007.
Formation of TGRADS
At the time the Uni retreated from Geminate, a group of Uni members wanted to remain in 0.0, allying with ISS, an organization which itself maintained neutrality. The Uni as a whole felt that this would nevertheless undermine its neutrality. Twenty-six Uni members left to form The Graduates (TGRADS), and take over the Cassini outpost of ISS in EC-P8R.
Unfortunately, this outpost was isolated from the rest of ISS. TGRADS was forced out of the region, and joined with the Uni in forming the Ivy League Alliance. Subsequently, they maintained POSes in NPC 0.0, under the IVY flag. The difficulty and expense of maintaining these POSes, and the disparity between the Uni's primary mission and the 0.0-ward desires of TGRADS, put strain on the relationship between the two. Subsequently TGRADS left IVY to join BRUCE, then an up-and-coming 0.0 alliance. After BRUCE dissolved, TGRADS joined Morsus Mihi. They are currently the largest corp in MM, and still recruit preferentially from the Uni.
See also The Graduates' history page
- 18 Sept 06 -- Romble no longer in Uni (TGRADS).
- Privateers (corp) war 24 Oct 2006. (Privateers founded 6 weeks previous). TGRADS in <ISS> at this time. <IVY> at ~700 members, though this includes some inactives. See [1]
The Drone Regions
The drone regions of space were added to the EvE universe in November of 2006. At some point subsequent to leaving Geminate, until about April 2007, the Uni held space in the drone regions (S-R9J2), while remaining headquartered in Korsiki(?). In April of 2007, Invictus attacked, and eventually forced IVY out of 0.0 again. Invictus got sov 1 on 28 Jun 2007, per evemaps.dotlan.net.
Meanwhile, back in Korsiki, the first of the wars with the Privateers started. Here's a rough timeline:
- ~18 Jan 07, TGRADS rejoined IVY.
- Privateers (alliance) wardec 14 Jan 2007. (50 parallel wars for PRIVs at this time. [1]
- This Privateers attack was hired, according to the Privateers themselves. Speculation at the time was that the hiring body was Multiversal Enterprises, Inc.
- Privateers (alliance) attacking Korsiki ("invasion fleet"), (15 Mar '07, 3 April '07.) [2]
- 11 Apr 07 -- resupply fleet op to 0.0 [3]
- 22 Apr -- the heroic call to arms! [4]
Battle Summary -- defense of S-R9J2
- 23 April 07 -- battle with Invictus.
- 24 April 2007 -- Trouble with Invictus "not over yet". [5]
During this time, TGRADS was organizing at least some 0.0 ops for Uni members. [6]
(I'm working on it, Kassie Kelmar. Give me time.)
Return to High-Sec
After leaving 0.0, the Uni settled at Korsiki. By the end of 2006, there was a precursor to the present ship replacement plan, though it only covered frigates -- and destroyers. At the beginning of 2007, as noted above, TGRADS joined the IVY alliance. And the first of the Privateers wars began.
Formation of the Low-sec Apprenticeship Group
In mid-2007, the Low-sec Apprenticeship group was formed -- possibly in a fit of absent-mindedness. Master Akira, who was involved in the group from early on, has written a short personal history of the group's first incarnation.
After Master Akira's departure from the Uni in mid-2008, the group was reorganized under Dlardrageth. Division 6 grew out of a subsequent reorg.
Unfortunately, most of the records of the low-sec group were archived for various reasons and are unavailable to anybody except directors. (J'accuse, Dinsdale Pirrhana!) If a director has the inclination and the time, could you please put together a short history of the group? Alternately, can anybody with personal knowledge help?
1st LSA Pirate Hunt (14 Aug 07)
on (not) shooting macro haulers
Formation of the ILN (July 2007)
At the end of July 2007, Silentbrick took a poll to gauge interest in forming a professional Navy, which became the ILN as we know it today.
The Long Series of Wars
Murder-Death-Kill (27 Aug 2007)
MD-K declared war on IVY, having first taken the trouble to set up a POS in Korsiki under an alt corporation (Vajayjay), in which they could shelter completely safe from attack -- in high-sec, shooting at the 'neutral' POS would be a CONCORD-able act. They also used the tactic of putting neutral alts in among their drones, to prevent smartbombs attacking their drones. Both of these were seen within the Uni as dirty tricks.
Background of MD-K
MD-K was a ~60-person corp at the time, composed of veteran PvP'ers. They had recently left the Triumvirate alliance, and had at one time advertised as mercenaries. It is not known whether their war with the Uni was hired by a third party. Interestingly, MD-K had apparently absorbed a corp of former Uni members, Direct Intent, a few months previously. This caused some internal conflict for MD-K, as a number of their members refused to fight the Uni.
Uni wardecs Vajayjay (29 Aug 2007)
The Uni made a rare wardec, in order to attack the POS in which MD-K was sheltering.
Departure of Ivy League Research Foundation [2KNOW] from IVY (30/31 Aug 08)
Soon after the wardec, MD-K attacked the POS in Korsiki. The attack was beaten off, but barely, since the POS was not configured for defense. 2KNOW decided as a defensive measure to remove the corp from IVY immediately; that is, to remove the POS from the wardec. Unfortunately, this caused some trouble.
POS Ejections
At this time, it was apparently common practice for players to log off at the POS, to avoid being camped in at stations. The departure of the POS owners from IVY meant that some Uni members were ejected from the POS on login, with no warning, into the waiting guns of MD-K. Others bounced off the POS shields to similar effect.
Wardec against Ivy League Research Foundation (2 Sep 2007)
MD-K next wardec'd 2KNOW, suggesting strongly that their primary target in this war was the Korsiki POS.
Significance of the POS Assault
MD-K's attack was particularly significant, since the Uni had a capital ship array anchored at the POS in Korsiki. Game changes had made it impossible to re-anchor such an array in high-sec space, so an irreplaceable asset was under attack -- a rarity in EvE.
CCP, with no warning, unanchors all high-sec capital construction arrays (3 Sept 2007)
At this time, CCP unanchored all high-sec capital construction arrays, preventing any more capital ships being constructed in hisec. Their stated reason for doing so was that the advantage given to the owners was unfair. Using a capital ship in hisec for war purposes was eventually made a petitionable action.
2KNOW Rejoins IVY, (5 Sept 07)
After the removal of the highsec capital arrays, the MD-K war quickly wound down, and 2-KNOW rejoined <IVY>.
Racketeers Wars (~1 Jan 2008)
- Mercenaries discussed, but not contracted?
LOLS and TRAPS (2-15 April 2008)
TRAPS (The Really Awesome Players), then a corp in the Privateer alliance, war-dec'd the Legion of Lost Souls. LOLS had history with the Uni and IVY going back to The Big Blue. LOLS refused to pay ransom to TRAPS, and joined the IVY alliance for mutual support. TRAPS later claimed that the cause of the LOLS wardec was LOLS' smack-talking.
After a week of war, TRAPS failed to renew the wardec. However, they joined the Privateers Alliance a few days later, and the shooting started again.
Chip Mintago talks with the Privateers
Ibn Sahl, Open-I (26 April 2008)
At this time, the Uni was dec'd by a one-man corp. The Uni's membership was about 1200. The diplomatic team contacted Ibn Sahl to see why he wanted to take us all on. The answer: Honor.
(After honor was satisfied, Ibn Sahl declared war on the Privateers.)
Chip writes:
Ok, so after Kelduum oked it today, I asked Ibn Sahl of Open I why he'd declared war on us. It could probably have gone better. Chat log follows Chip Mintago > Pardon me Chip Mintago > I notice that you have, by yourself, declared war against Eve University, to which I belong Ibn Sahl > Honour permitted no other response! Chip Mintago > Uhm, ok Chip Mintago > I just hoped maybe you could let me know why Ibn Sahl > What? Ibn Sahl > Because I could stand the insult no longer Chip Mintago > Wait, as sec, ... sorry, I'm not up on the details Chip Mintago > Did we do something? Chip Mintago > What is the greivance? Ibn Sahl > I have made six attempts to communicate now Ibn Sahl > I first sent mail to Kelduum Reevan, your diplomat Ibn Sahl > When I received no response I sent a follow up Ibn Sahl > With no response to that I sent another follow up Chip Mintago > We've been busy Ibn Sahl > Who is my corporation that your diplomats haven't even a moment to discuss an offer of skill materials that I made them? Chip Mintago > I'm sure it's just been overlooked Ibn Sahl > I then spoke to members of your corporation three times on your Eve University channel Ibn Sahl > Three seperate occassions Ibn Sahl > On the second, Ixxc told me I would receive a response from your diplomats Ibn Sahl > Still nothing. Six contacts. And with an offer to donate to you. I have a proud nature. I can no longer stand the insult. What course is there but war? Chip Mintago > Ah Chip Mintago > So, ... wait, this is because we uhm didn't talk to you? Ibn Sahl > What would become of a man who no longer had any reason for defending himself from insult? Ibn Sahl > What affects does he keep if he has lost those in which lie his weapons of defense and attack>? Chip Mintago > Ok, but uisn't this expensive? Chip Mintago > I mean, what do you get from fighting a thousand people Ibn Sahl > Must I profit materially? Ibn Sahl > Can you see no reason for action but profit? Should all morals be based on what serves your purse? Ibn Sahl > You smell of the shop! Ibn Sahl > Of course I cannot prevail Ibn Sahl > I am not a servant of my purse Ibn Sahl > I abhor the vulgarity of the view that everything must be done for money Ibn Sahl > Would you establish all galactic intercourse on the basis of mutual services, so that every action appears as a kind of payment for something? Ibn Sahl > These are the moral values of the old galaxy Ibn Sahl > It is in the soil poisioned by these values that our galactic culture now withers. Chip Mintago > Ok Ibn Sahl > If you can genuinly not conceive of action based in honour, then the situation is worse even than I had imagined Chip Mintago > look<br>I'm going to go... Ibn Sahl > The parochial narrowness of your principle repels me Ibn Sahl > This is why we require aristocractic segregation from the masses Ibn Sahl > From the Chip Minargos that would barter even matter matters of life and death! Ibn Sahl > It is the clear, instinctive and fundamental basis of any noble man that he will fight to avenge insult Ibn Sahl > It is not a question of your profits and losses Ibn Sahl > Have you never put your life in danger over honour? Ibn Sahl > Haven't you wished to leave behind your accounting room, your merchant's ledger and indulge the passion to defend your honour? Ibn Sahl > Greatness of character does not consist in assembling property, Mintago! Ibn Sahl > Throw out your ledger. Train for the arts of war. Give in to your passions. Chip Mintago > It's just something is burning on my stove Chip Mintago > I'd like nothing more than to talk about this some more, but I'm going to have to go Ibn Sahl > Have you not even the courage to confront me? Say you are leaving like a man! Ibn Sahl > Say that you abhor me, or that you will not talk to an enemy Ibn Sahl > Where is your soul? Chip Mintago > I can smell the smoke from here. I need to go Ibn Sahl > Even in conversation, can you only blather? Can you only say we are friends? Chip Mintago > No I like you. I sure am not in any way someone you should hunt or anything like that Chip Mintago > I just need to get some sleep you see. May I say what pleasure it has been to hear about your positions on these matters Ibn Sahl > Your talk is cowardice. If you were bolder and stronger you would openly confront me with the contempt you must feel Ibn Sahl > Where is your pride Ibn Sahl > I call you a coward and you just blather?
Privateer Wars (Spring? 2008-2 Jun 2008)
In March of 2008, the Privateers announced on the Eve forums that they would be accepting contracts against the Uni. It was widely believed that senior leaders in the Privateers had developed personal grudges against the Uni. For the following two months, the Privateers maintained continuous war against the Uni.
Nature of the Privateer Alliance
The Privateer Alliance was founded in order to facilitate hisec PvP for its members. Wardec fees at the time scaled only with the number of simultaneous wars the defender had; this made it possible for Privateers to maintain a large number of simultaneous wardecs. Prior to April 2007, they typically had 75 to 80 simultaneous wardecs -- which provided them with wide scope for shooting people. The wardec fees were sustainable because of the large size of the alliance, which spread the cost around. Privateers' corporations were able to sustain themselves from the loot of their kills, but the system depended on having a lot of valid targets in hisec.
The Revelations 1.4.2 patch in April of 2007 changed the calculation of wardec fees to factor in the number of wars the aggressor was maintaining, so that huge numbers of simultaneous wars were no longer practical. This changed the nature of the Privateers' operations.
Battleship Loans
Lack of DPS in Uni fleets has been a recurring problem throughout the Uni's history. After over a month of war with no break, a battleship loan program was started to get more battleship-capable pilots flying the big boats in war fleets.
The Decshield (25 May 2008)
- Decshield removed (23 Jun 2008)
- Privateers declare war again (23 Jun 2008) [7]
- Privateer Alliance internal disputes and interest in faction warfare end in wardec retraction (1 Jul 08). [8]
- Collapse of Privateer Alliance(?). [9]
- Subsequent reformation under B.C. Hastings.
Effects of the Wars on Wartime SOP
Special Privateer SOPs
One of the effects of the extended war was greatly tightened wartime SOPs. The general war rules had for a great while allowed mining and missioning as long as it was done several systems away from the Korsiki-Jita pipe, and in quiet systems (i.e., not major mission hubs). It was thought that people would see war targets enter local and have time to dock up before the enemy could find them.
For the Privateer wars, that was no longer considered sufficient. Since an essential part of the war strategy was to deny the enemy kills and loot, first mining and then missioning were banned altogether during Privateer wars. Travel was still allowed, except during local lockdowns.
5 Apr 08 TRAPS/ Privateer War Rules
One Man and His Drake (18 August 2008)
Well, there was this one guy, see, with a Drake. One Man and His Drake was also his corp name. He thought he'd developed the ultimate tank for the Drake. He still got blown up, and he wasn't a good sport about it.
Departure and Return of Sabre A
Castle Greyskull and the Disappearing POS (Nov 2008)
Formation of D6 (~Mar 2009?)
Seppuku Warriors / Vertigo Coalition War (April/May 2009)
It's been pointed out to me that this section needs significant factual correction. I hope to revise it in the next day or so; meanwhile, don't rely on this for your homework. --JH
In-process reference collection point -- temporary
Discussion on this article is currently happening in this forum thread.
Destruction of the Uni POS (4 May 2009)
Seppuku Warriors had declared war on the Uni simultaneously with Dynaverse, a larger corporation with no previous interaction with the Uni. The war opened with SW suicide-ganking a hauler before the formal onset of hostilities, which should have been a hint. SW assured Uni management that they wanted a clean war, and that they weren't interested in the Uni POS. So it was a bit of a surprise when 50+ battleships arrived to assault the POS.Uni war thread
The war had been timed to fall during the final exam period of many real-life universities, which limited the Uni force available. The Uni leadership present at the time decided that they couldn't contest the Dynaverse-SW fleet, and ordered a total lockdown to prevent losses. The POS was put into reinforced mode, and the battleship fleet left. SW insisted that of course they wouldn't blow up the pos -- they just wanted to teach the Uni a lesson. They also expressed regret that the Uni hadn't come out (in a largely frigate-and-cruiser fleet) to fight. (Remember that at this time, the Uni had very few battleship-capable pilots).
The Uni leadership kept its plans quiet, but the student body was spoiling for a fight. Independently, many students started planning either to repair the POS shields & modules, or to fight a fleet if there was a subsequent attack.
When the POS came out of reinforced mode on 9 May, 2009, a large Dynaverse fleet again showed up to attack it. Uni fleets responded, and a battle royal ensued. Dynaverse/SW, in addition to their superior firepower, had parked neutral alts in shuttles in the middle of their drone swarms. This led to perhaps the lightest moment of the day -- Dierdra Vaal, who had used smart-bombs to clear the enemy drone swarm, running away from Concord at high speed, toward low-sec, in a series of vehicles. Dierdra's security status had dropped instantly from +5 to -6 as the "neutral" shuttles and pods got destroyed. DV then discovered in order that (a) You can't successfully tank Concord and station/gate guns in a battleship, and (b) you can't cloak your covops in high-sec if Concord is after you.
Unfortunately, the POS was destroyed in the end. A replacement POS was donated to the Uni by the members of D6, so the material loss was mitigated -- but the emotional impact on the Uni membership was enormous.
Shortly after the destruction of the University POS, Cazzah wrote an article attempting to summarize the situation and provide some background. [4]
Sharks with Frickin' Laser Beams
Another mercenary group that wardec'd the Uni hot on the heels of the POS takedown, FRICK was very, very good at small-group combat. Fighting them was educational -- they camped several stations at Korsiki with elegant teamwork and well-chosen bookmarks.
It had become apparent to many by this point that someone with a lot of spare cash was upset at the Uni. We were getting wardecs every week, and from mercenaries every time.
Move to Aldrat
Subsequent to the SW/Dynaverse war, the number of 'real' wars decreased. However, a huge number of 'faildec' wars were declared in this time period -- 7-10 member corps who'd show up for a day of fighting, lose a ship or two, and then hide for the rest of the week, causing the Uni membership to spin in station.
Uni leaders suspected that a large part of this problem was being a very large corporation located in the highest-population region of space. A number of solutions were considered, and it was decided to move the Uni to a quieter region of space. They looked around and decided on Aldrat -- a quiet region near Hek, but not so near as to cause trouble. Aldrat is also near the infamous pirate system Rancer, which has greatly increased PvP learning opportunities for students. It's also at the head of a cul-de-sac in space, which has certain practical advantages.
The move to Aldrat has decreased the number of wardecs the Uni has had, though cleaning the low-grade pirates and can-flippers out of the region occupied people for quite a while at the start of the move.
John Haldane writes:
One day in November of '09, Reese Walker scanned down a POS in a wormhole. Her voice came over the Teamspeak channel: "Hey, guys -- guess what I found!" That turned into a week or so of frantic activity, since what she had found was a wormhole system where some members of Dynaverse were maintaining POSes. We quickly arranged to get some scanning alts into their wormhole, and got hold of Silentbrick. Soon, Silent had called for a fleet to... take care of the problem, and D6 was trying to provide logistic support, scanning services, and wormhole management and training for a Uni siege fleet, on short notice and with little practice (or sleep). The siege was successful -- the POS owners sued for terms, and the ILN carried home the Dynaverse POS tower as part of the surrender terms. A lot of Unistas got a real education in WH operations over the weekend. But to this day, we all flinch when Reese says "Hey, guys!". [10] [11]
The (Re)Opening of NPC 0.0
Because Aldrat is also near NPC 0.0 space, Uni leadership took the experimental step of opening NPC 0.0 to students. This seems to have worked out pretty well so far -- students can dip a toe into 0.0 without the political repercussions of entering sovereign 0.0.
Departure of Morning Maniac
At the start of 2010, Morning Maniac announced that he was stepping down as CEO of the Uni, after almost 6 years at the helm. Kelduum Revaan, the former Director of Operations, has replaced MM as CEO. Morning Maniac remains a Uni member and Director Emeritus.
Stuff that needs to be fitted in somewhere
- Ivy League R&D Foundation (Eskona?)
- Sabre A
- D6
- Zulu
- Battlegroups
- SPS-es (Summer 2007)
- Uni fight club (definitely active Nov '07)
- The Rampart project was a program bringing more experienced students out to the 0.0 outpost in the drone regions to bolster the defence. [12]
- Cruiser replacement started Nov 2007
Corporations Related to the Uni
- Thukk U (Minmatar)
- 7th Golden Lancers (Amarr)
- 13th State Grenadiers Militia (Caldari)
(Incomplete) List of former-Unista Corps
If I've left your corp out, feel free to add it in, eve-mail John Haldane, or comment in the history thread. If you have additional info, that's even better.
One might also distinguish between corps formed directly out of the Uni, corps which took in large single groups of Unistas, and corps started by groups of ex-Unistas later in their careers. One would quickly get bogged down trying to distinguish.
- The Graduates (TGRADS)
- Direct Intent
- Internal Anarchy (much of then-BG 1 moved here, circa Fall 2009)
- Central Research Nexus (CRN) (Faction Warfare)
- Child Head Injury and Laceration Doctors (CH1LD)
- Art of War (?)
- Adhocracy (ADHC)
- Seppuku Warriors (TANTO)
- Everset Dropbears (EDROP)(formed when D6 was shut down, Feb 2010)
RUSE /TDROP/
There have always been players in the Uni who don't like PvP, or can't join fleet ops for practical reasons. Over the years, Kelduum Revaan started a couple of corporations to accommodate them. TDROP was the earlier of the two.
RUSE was in use until mid-2009, approximately, when another series of wardecs caused the Uni to stop using drop corps for the moment.
TDROP was active in the MD-K period -- Aug '07. At some points, there was a waiting period to get in, as the CEO was still training corp skills.
Kelduum writes: [13]
The Dropouts [TDROP] was formed by myself as a 'safe haven' for members during war - basically maintained by an alt, the idea was to keep a few of the members together and let them know how the war was going. Eventually, it got wardecced pretty quick, so was dissolved. If you check Keldalt Revaan's corp history, you should be able to find the time it was founded and closed.
R.U.S.E. [RUSE] was the second incarnation of TDROP, and the name was chosen by a poll on the forums here. Officially "Rafe Udall Spacelane Enterprises", after the CEO (again, an alt of mine, and you should be able to find the info in my corp history), unofficially the name stood for "Respite Until Shooting has Ended". Eventually this also attracted wars, which lead to its dissolution and closure, and the reform in channels, starting with "Eve High" which became Chat.E-UNI and similar.
References
- ^ http://www.eve-ivy.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=2931&start=15
- ^ http://www.eve-ivy.com/forums//viewtopic.php?f=31&t=3428
- ^ http://www.eve-ivy.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=3673
- ^ http://www.eve-ivy.com/forums//viewtopic.php?f=31&t=3804
- ^ http://www.eve-ivy.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=3817
- ^ http://www.eve-ivy.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=3803
- ^ http://www.eve-ivy.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=9667
- ^ http://www.eve-ivy.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=99532#p99532
- ^ http://www.eve-ivy.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=99238#p99238
- ^ http://www.eve-ivy.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=22755
- ^ http://www.eve-ivy.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=103&t=22970
- ^ http://www.eve-ivy.com/forums//viewtopic.php?p=35348#p35348
- ^ http://www.eve-ivy.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=257355#p257355