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User:Olly Wakwako/sandbox/Incursion Fitting Principles: Difference between revisions

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{{Incursions links}}
{{Incursions links}}{{eunic}}
Incursion fleets rely rely on good resists, sufficient buffer, command bursts and active logistics. There are simply too many enemies to be able to fit a strong enough local tank, not to mention that by sacrificing a small portion of your fleet to bring in logistics instead of more damage dealers, the rest of the damage dealers can fit more offensive modules and your fleet will perform better.
Incursion fleets rely rely on good resists, sufficient buffer, command bursts and active logistics. There are simply too many enemies to be able to fit a strong enough local tank, not to mention that by sacrificing a small portion of your fleet to bring in logistics instead of more damage dealers, the rest of the damage dealers can fit more offensive modules and your fleet will perform better.


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| {{co|coral|Rigs}}
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Our suggested fits are designed with rigs that are compatible with the suggested fits of public armor headquarters communities. This allows our members to join in with content that the Univeristy cannot provide without having to buy a separate ship or spend excess ISK on rerigging their ships.
Our suggested fits are designed with rigs that are compatible with the suggested fits of public armor headquarters communities. This allows our members to join in with content that the Univeristy cannot provide without having to buy a separate ship or spend excess ISK on rerigging their ships. The fits for these public headquarters groups can be found [https://contingencyinc.com/fits here], [https://t-d-f.one/fits here], and [https://wl.tlaincursions.com/fits?Tier=Armor here].


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In general, we prefer that utility midslots are occupied with a mix of primarily '''Tracking Computers''' and '''Sensor Boosters'''. Beyond these, Target Painters can be useful, as well as '''Stasis Webifiers'''.
In general, we prefer that utility midslots are occupied with a mix of primarily '''Tracking Computers''' and '''Sensor Boosters'''. Beyond these, Target Painters can be useful, as well as '''Stasis Webifiers'''.
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Drones will not be called upon in every fleet, as they are of marginal benefit. However, they can get fleets out of sticky situations on occasion, so we ask that every ship be fitted with at least a set of '''Acolytes''' and a set of '''Armor Maintenance Bots''' for use in emergencies.
Drones will not be called upon in every fleet, as they are of marginal benefit. However, they can get fleets out of sticky situations on occasion, so we ask that every ship be fitted with at least a set of '''Acolytes''' and a set of '''Armor Maintenance Bots''' for use in emergencies.
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Incursions can be done with both shield and armor doctrines. Previously the EVE University Incursion Community has used a shield doctrine, however we now use an armor doctrine. There are pros and cons to both:
Incursions can be done with both shield and armor doctrines. Previously the EVE University Incursion Community has used a shield doctrine, however we now use an armor doctrine. There are pros and cons to both:


* Shield tanking modules are less skill dependent compared to armor, as passive armor modules require the armor compensation skills. However, there is no multispectrum passive shield amplifier, so shield tanking relies on capacitor, and can be turned off if a ship is sufficiently neuted. This aspect is most prevalent in Assault and Headquarters sites, where neut pressure is much more of a concern owing to the Otouni Mesen, which carries a capital-sized neutralizer, as well as the requirement of those sites to equip propulsion modules which are exceedingly capacitor hungry on their own.
* Shield tanking modules are less skill dependent compared to armor, as passive armor modules require the armor compensation skills. However, there is no multispectrum passive shield amplifier, so shield tanking relies on capacitor, and can be turned off if a ship is sufficiently neuted. This aspect is most prevalent in Assault and Headquarters sites, where neut pressure is much more of a concern owing to the Outuni Mesen, which carries a capital-sized neutralizer, as well as the requirement of those sites to equip propulsion modules which are exceedingly capacitor hungry on their own.
* Remote shield boosters apply their repairs at the start of a cycle, which can allow logistics to be applied sooner in the case of sudden aggro switches, however amour repairs tend to cycle faster, and have some buffer in their shields, meaning this benefit is somewhat negated.
* Remote shield boosters apply their repairs at the start of a cycle, which can allow logistics to be applied sooner in the case of sudden aggro switches, however armor repairs cycle faster, and armor ships have buffer in their shields, meaning this benefit is somewhat negated.
* In the event that a ships tank were to break, shield ships have more buffer than armor ships - a shield ship can bleed both armor and hull, whereas an armor tanked ship would only be bleeding hull.
* In the event that a ships tank were to break, shield ships have more buffer than armor ships - a shield ship can bleed both armor and hull, whereas an armor tanked ship would only be bleeding hull.
* Shield tanking modules occupy the midslots of a ship, which could otherwise be used by modules such as tracking computers and sensor boosters (which are more effective and flexible as compared to their lowslot counterparts), as well as other utility modules such as stasis webifiers and target painters. Armor tanking modules instead take up lowslots.
* Shield tanking modules occupy the midslots of a ship, which could otherwise be used by modules such as tracking computers and sensor boosters (which are more effective and flexible as compared to their lowslot counterparts), as well as other utility modules such as stasis webifiers and target painters. Armor tanking modules instead take up lowslots, potentially at the expense of damage modules.


In the [[EVE University Incursion Community]] we run armor doctrine because of a mix of these reasons, as well as the fact that the majority of the public incursion communities now run armor doctrine fleets, meaning Unistas who wish to explore the incursions content that the University cannot provide are best positioned to do so.
In the [[EVE University Incursion Community]] we run armor doctrine because of a mix of these reasons, as well as the fact that the majority of the public incursion communities now run armor doctrine fleets, meaning Unistas who wish to explore the incursions content that the University cannot provide are best positioned to do so.
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While the exact fits vary between communities as well as fleet compositions, there are a few common grounds for using utility mids. In vanguards, the sensor boosters allow you to lock up the much smaller frigates more quickly, webs are used to help apply damage to enemies that come close, while painters and tracking computers help apply damage at range. The same can be said for assaults and headquarters, although the need for sensor boosters rapidly diminish as you move on from vanguards, as there are fewer frigates in assaults and headquarter sites, reducing the need for sensor boosters.
While the exact fits vary between communities as well as fleet compositions, there are a few common grounds for using utility mids. In vanguards, the sensor boosters allow you to lock up the much smaller frigates more quickly, webs are used to help apply damage to enemies that come close, while painters and tracking computers help apply damage at range. The same can be said for assaults and headquarters, although the need for sensor boosters rapidly diminish as you move on from vanguards, as there are fewer frigates in assaults and headquarter sites, reducing the need for sensor boosters.


Utility highs are selected based on individual ship needs. It is common for ships to include an '''Auto Targeting System''' in a utility highslot to give access to more locked targets, potentially allowing a ship to lock all of the Sansha in a wave up at the same time, removing the need to continually lock rats as the wave progresses. Outside of this, it is good practice to include '''Remote Armor Repairers''' for use in emergencies where the logistics pilot in a fleet may have disconnected. Outside of Vanguards, ''Remote Capacitor Transmitters'' can be useful, as these can help ships being targetted by Sansha such as the Deltole Tegmentum or Otouni Mesen, which provide significant capacitor neutralization pressure.
Utility highs are selected based on individual ship needs. It is common for ships to include an '''Auto Targeting System''' in a utility highslot to give access to more locked targets, potentially allowing a ship to lock all of the Sansha in a wave up at the same time, removing the need to continually lock rats as the wave progresses. Outside of this, it is good practice to include '''Remote Armor Repairers''' for use in emergencies where the logistics pilot in a fleet may have disconnected. Outside of Vanguards, ''Remote Capacitor Transmitters'' can be useful, as these can help ships being targetted by Sansha such as the Deltole Tegmentum or Outuni Mesen, which provide significant capacitor neutralization pressure.


=== Drones ===
=== Drones ===
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| {{co|coral|Offence Rigs}}
| {{co|coral|Offence Rigs}}


Going for damage means that you're limited somewhat due to the high calibration cost of rigs such as Burst Aerators. Alternatively, Hyperspatial Velocity Optimization rigs offer the benefit of allowing your ship to warp faster, which is particularly advantageous in a situation where every fleet member is capable of the same, minimising the time the fleet spends in warp thus improving fleet efficiency.
Going for damage means that you're limited somewhat due to the high calibration cost of rigs such as Burst Aerators. However, these rigs are often utilized in headquarters fits, particularly in the Vindicator and Marauders.
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| [[image:module_icon_propulsion_rig_tech2.png|64px|link=]]
| {{co|coral|Hyperspatial Rigs}}
 
Alternatively, Hyperspatial Velocity Optimization rigs offer the benefit of allowing your ship to warp faster, which is particularly advantageous in a situation where every fleet member is capable of the same, minimising the time the fleet spends in warp thus improving fleet efficiency. All of the EVE University Incursion Community doctrine ships have a Tech 2 hyperspatial rig, so we would suggest including one if you can.


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=== Determining a proper tank ===
=== Determining a proper tank ===
There are a few easy ways to determine whether a tank is OK or not. You can judge your tank by many means, but for Incursions the best way to measure your tank is to look at '''effective armor hit points''' (EAHP), as opposed to '''damage per second repaired''' (DPS-tank) or the generic '''effective hit points''' (EHP). This is because a lot of ships have significant shield and hull hit points, so the effective hit points value can be quite misleading on a battleship with a damage control for example, as the EHP-value skyrockets compared to a ship without a damage control fitted, but very little of it applies to the actual EAHP.
There are a few easy ways to determine whether a tank is OK or not. You can judge your tank by many means, but for Incursions the best way to measure your tank is to look at your ship's '''armor effective hit points''' (armor EHP), as opposed to '''damage per second repaired''' (DPS-tank) or the generic '''effective hit points''' (EHP). This is because a lot of ships have significant shield and hull hit points, so the effective hit points value can be quite misleading on a battleship with a damage control for example, as the EHP-value skyrockets compared to a ship without a damage control fitted, but very little of it applies to the actual armor EHP.


While the above mentioned effective armor hit points is a good measure, it is not always practical to use on the fly. For one it doesn't really tell you if the ship has any glaring resist holes, so for practical reasons we tend to speak in more general terms -- Armor hit points and resists. It's much easier to just ask the pilot ''"How many raw armor hit points do you have?"'' and ''"What are your resists?"''. It's very easy for people to check this ingame and it tells us enough to judge whether or not the fit is OK.
While the above mentioned armor effective hit points is a good measure, it is not always practical to use on the fly. For one it doesn't really tell you if the ship has any glaring resist holes, so for practical reasons we tend to speak in more general terms -- Armor hit points and resists. It's much easier to just ask the pilot ''"How many raw armor hit points do you have?"'' and ''"What are your resists?"''. It's very easy for people to check this ingame and it tells us enough to judge whether or not the fit is OK.


==== Guidelines ====
==== Guidelines ====
{{note box|Values listed here are approximate based on our tank guidelines, and inferred from the basic fits of armor headquarters groups. Though Warp To Me does publish their tank requirements (67% omni shield resists and 12,000 raw shield HP}, others do not.}}
{{note box|Values listed here are approximate based on our tank guidelines, and inferred from the basic fits of armor headquarters groups. Though the public shield Incursion community Warp To Me does publish their tank requirements (67% omni shield resists and 12,000 raw shield HP as of February 2024), others do not.}}
Below are some rough guidelines for what a proper tank might be for a battleship (there isn't much variation to speak of for logistics). Since we focus mainly on low skilled, kitchen sink setups we're going with a relatively high recommended level for our community. The values below are of raw armor hit points and paired average resists (EM/thermal and kinetic/explosive), values '''before boosts''' for easy comparison.
Below are some rough guidelines for what a proper tank might be for a battleship (there isn't much variation to speak of for logistics). Since we focus mainly on low skilled, kitchen sink setups we're going with a relatively high recommended level for our community. The values below are of raw armor hit points and paired average resists (EM/thermal and kinetic/explosive), values '''before boosts''' for easy comparison.
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In vanguards it is somewhat common for FCs to allow (sometimes significantly) lower resists in fleets with sufficient DPS. This is a concept known as ''DPS tanking''. Though it can be precarious and depend on all members of the fleet flying their ships effectively, having 4 or 5 Marauders in a fleet means that a significant portion of the Sanshas DPS never applies because the ships die before the get into range to apply significantly. With that said, remember that resists are far more important than raw armor hit points, as higher resists has the secondary benefit of increasing the efficiency of remote repairs. Below is a graph illustrating how damage changes with scaling resists.
In vanguards it is somewhat common for FCs to allow (sometimes significantly) lower resists in fleets with sufficient DPS. This is a concept known as ''DPS tanking''. Though it can be precarious and depend on all members of the fleet flying their ships effectively, having 4 or 5 Marauders in a Vanguard fleet means that a significant portion of the Sanshas DPS never applies because the ships die before the get into range to apply significant damage. With that said, remember that resists are far more important than raw armor hit points, as higher resists has the secondary benefit of increasing the efficiency of remote repairs. Below is a graph illustrating how damage changes with scaling resists.


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== Applying the guidelines - a practical example ==
== Applying the guidelines - a practical example ==
This section serves as a guide on how to apply the fitting principles in a way that could generate a suitable fit for any suitable hull. In this example, we will work towards a fit for a pilot who has been flying a pulse Praxis, and wants to Begin flying a Nightmare. They have the skills to fit T2 guns, but don't have a whole lot of isk to be spending on excessive expensive modules.
This section serves as a guide on how to apply the fitting principles in a way that could generate a suitable fit for any suitable hull. In this example, we will work towards a fit for a pilot who has been flying a pulse Praxis, and wants to begin flying a Nightmare. They have the skills to fit T2 guns, but don't have a whole lot of ISK to be spending on expensive modules.


==== Required modules - rigs, tank, and guns ====
==== Required modules - rigs, tank, and guns ====
We begin with the rigs, as we would like for our fit to be useful outside of Vanguards. The rigs used by Contingency Incursions for their "Advanced" Nightmare fit (and also by The Ditanian Fleet, but strangely only in their "Antigank" fit) are a T1 Explosive and Kinetic Armor Reinforcer, and a T2 Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer.
We begin with the rigs, as we would like for our fit to be useful outside of Vanguards. The rigs used by the public armor headquarters community Contingency Incursions for their "Advanced" Nightmare fit (and also by the similar community The Ditanian Fleet, but only in their "Antigank" fit) are a T1 Explosive and Kinetic Armor Reinforcer, and a T2 Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer.


Following this, we consider how to meet the 67% omni resists guideline. Looking to those same headquarters fits, we see expensive A-Type deadspace modules. Looking again to the "Antigank" fits, we see the use of Imperial Navy Multispectrum Energized Membranes. Using two of these on our Nightmare with the aforementioned rigs doesn't quite get us to the resists we need, but adding a Damage Control puts us over the mark. Finally for now, we know that we will need to be able to do damage, so we include the maximum number of Mega Pulse Laser IIs that we can fit - 4 to match the 4 turret hardpoints of the Nightmare.
Following this, we consider how to meet the 67% omni resists guideline. Looking to those same headquarters fits, we see expensive A-Type deadspace modules. Looking again to the "Antigank" fits, we see the use of Imperial Navy Multispectrum Energized Membranes. Using two of these on our Nightmare with the aforementioned rigs doesn't quite get us to the resists we need, but adding a Damage Control puts us over the mark. Finally for now, we know that we will need to be able to do damage, so we include the maximum number of Mega Pulse Laser IIs that we can fit - 4 to match the 4 turret hardpoints of the Nightmare.
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==== Rounding out the lowslots ====
==== Rounding out the lowslots ====
 
Now we have a fit which, while not particularly useful or effective, meets all of the requirements to join a fleet. Now we have some choices to make regarding the remaining slots. The easiest of these choices is what to do with the low slots. These slots are the only ones which allow us to directly increase the raw DPS that the ship does, and it would be advisable to make use of these slots in that way. As this is a ship using energy weapons, we require heat sinks. Here, we choose to splash some ISK to get faction heat sinks, as they provide a nice bump in DPS over their Tech 2 counterparts, whilst also being no more expensive than the faction midslots which, while also useful, do not provide as much of a tangible benefit.
Now we have a fit which, while not particularly useful or effective, meets all of the requirements to join a fleet. Now we have some choices to make regarding the remaining slots. The easiest of these choices is what to do with the low slots. These slots are the only ones which allow us to directly increase the raw DPS that the ship does, and it would be advisable to make use of these slots in that way. As this is a ship using energy weapons, we require heat sinks. Here, we choose to splash some isk to get faction heat sinks, as they provide a nice bump in DPS but are generally cheaper than faction midslots.


If a fit were to have more than 4 lowslots available, other options for these might include capacitor power relays if the fit were to end up being short on capacitor life, signal amplifiers to speed up lock time and increase the limit on concurrently locked targets, or tracking enhancers to increase application of DPS.
If a fit were to have more than 4 lowslots available, other options for these might include capacitor power relays if the fit were to end up being short on capacitor life, signal amplifiers to speed up lock time and increase the limit on concurrently locked targets, or tracking enhancers to increase application of DPS.
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==== Utility midslots ====
==== Utility midslots ====
The Nightmare is designed to be a shield-tanked ship, so benefits from an abundance of midslots, especially now that we are not using those slots for tank modules. As such, we are spoiled for choice, and we choose to be greedy. The first thing we should choose to include is a set of tracking computers. These massively increase our applied DPS by causing us to miss our shots less often, and allowing us to use higher damage charges at longer range. Being scripted also makes them a good choice, especially compared to their lowslot counterparts.
The Nightmare is designed to be a shield-tanked ship, so it benefits from an abundance of midslots, especially now that we are not using those slots for tank modules. As such, we are spoiled for choice, and we choose to be greedy. The first thing we should choose to include is a set of tracking computers. These massively increase our applied DPS by causing us to miss our shots less often, and allowing us to use higher damage ammunition at longer range. Being scripted also makes them a good choice, especially compared to their lowslot counterparts. We will also choose to include some sensor boosters. These will always be used in combination with scan resolution scripts, as in Vanguards we do not require the extra locking range, and the ECCM is nice but not vital. By being able to lock targets faster, we can kill them faster, which makes the whole fleet safer and more efficient.


Another good option are sensor boosters. These will always be used in combination with scan resolution scripts, as in Vanguards we do not require the extra locking range, and the ECCM is nice but not vital. By being able to lock targets faster, we can kill them faster, which makes the whole fleet safer and more efficient. As we have 7 midslots available (and we enjoy symmetry), we will choose 3 of each of sensor boosters and tracking computers. This leaves one slot remaining. Good options might be a target painter (to amplify the whole fleets application), a capacitor battery or recharger (if capacitor life is lower than 10 minutes or so this could be a good option). However, we will choose to include a stasis webifier. This is the safest option - if a fleet is running with only one Vindicator pilot and nobody else has webs on their ship, the fleet will struggle massively to kill frigates that get into orbit range, so having spare webs is a vital asset.
Aside from these choices, there is a lot of flexibility here. In the fit below, we have opted for 3 tracking computers, 3 sensor boosters, and a stasis webifier. This is a good general choice - it provides a good mix of locking speed and application. Swapping to a mix of 4 tracking computers and 2 sensor boosters is also perfectly fine, and swapping the web for a target painter provides better application at long range whilst almost being as effective as a web up close in terms of applied DPS. It would be perfectly acceptable to keep the web and paint, and switch to 3 tracking computers and 2 sensor boosters. The world is your oyster.


{{ShipFitting
{{ShipFitting