Difference between revisions of "Student Guidance Department"

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{{Historical}}
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'''This department is no longer in existence. The closest equivalent is the [[Orientation Department]]'''
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''This article is about the Student Guidance Department, how it fits within the [[Human Resources Department|Human Resources Division]] of EVE University, and how it serves the general membership.''
 
''This article is about the Student Guidance Department, how it fits within the [[Human Resources Department|Human Resources Division]] of EVE University, and how it serves the general membership.''
  
The role of the Student Guidance Department is to act to ensure both [[EVE University Rules]] and the [[Wartime Standard Operating Procedures]] are being followed, applied, and adjuticated fairly and firmly for all members and staff, along with sending out routine reminders on Uni Rules, WSOP, policies, and procedures.  They are there to help educate members on these things and how to avoid transgressions in these areas.  They also offer guidance with regards to the various programs and services available in EVE University helping those who may be somewhat overwhelmed with what's available.
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The role of the Student Guidance Department is to offer guidance with regards to the various programs and services available in EVE University helping those who may be somewhat overwhelmed with what's available. Student Advisors exist to be a reliable, approachable and readily available source of information. 
  
 
== Student Guidance Manager ==
 
== Student Guidance Manager ==
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| valign="top" | [[Image:Hannibal Barcca.jpg|thumb|left|128px]]  
 
| valign="top" | [[Image:Hannibal Barcca.jpg|thumb|left|128px]]  
 
| valign="top" | <big>'''[[Hannibal Barcca]]'''</big>
 
| valign="top" | <big>'''[[Hannibal Barcca]]'''</big>
'''About the role:''' The Student Guidance Manager essentially functions as a moderator, addressing [[EVE University Rules|Rules]] and [[Wartime Standard Operating Procedures|WSOP]] issues and transgressions by students and staff before they escalate to the point where a director should need to get involved. The SGM oversees any member issues relating to the [[EVE University Rules]] and the [[Wartime Standard Operating Procedures]] and also assisting members who may be overwhelmed with what to do in regards to our many programs and services. Have you got an issue or need an explanation regarding our [[EVE University Rules|Rules]], [[Wartime Standard Operating Procedures|WSOP]], or one of our various programs or services? Then the Student Guidance Manager or his Assistants and staff in the [[Student Guidance Department]] are the people you should speak to.  
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'''About the role:''' The Student Guidance Manager essentially functions as a moderator, ensuring that Student Advisors continue to provide accurate and timely information. The manager also acts as a Student Advisor, assisting members who may be overwhelmed with what to do in regards to our many programs and services. Have you got an issue or need an explanation regarding our [[EVE University Rules|Rules]] or one of our various programs or services? Then the Student Guidance Manager or his Assistants and staff in the [[Student Guidance Department]] are the people you should speak to.  
  
 
'''About the person:''' Data missing.  
 
'''About the person:''' Data missing.  
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'''Assistants:''' [[User:Krcik88|Krcik88]]
  
 
'''Reports to:''' [[CEO#Director_of_Human_Resources|Director of HR]]  
 
'''Reports to:''' [[CEO#Director_of_Human_Resources|Director of HR]]  
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== Student Guidance Assistants ==
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== Assistant Guidance Managers ==
  
The role of the Student Guidance Assistants is to provide additional points of contact for members and staff should there be any Guidance, [[EVE University Rules|Rules]] or [[Wartime Standard Operating Procedures|WSOP]] issues arise.  They act with the authority of the SGM when the SGM is not available.  They also assist the SGM with administrative side of the department and the training of Student Advisors.
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The role of the Assistant Guidance Managers is to provide additional points of contact for members and staff should any Guidance issues arise.  They act with the authority of the SGM when the SGM is not available.  They also assist the SGM with administrative side of the department and the training of Student Advisors.
 
 
[[BobbyRush]] is some British git who is very active in a number of aspects of the Uni, and is also a Teacher.  You can find him doing almost anything from PvP to running Incursions and missioning.
 
  
 
== Student Advisors ==
 
== Student Advisors ==
  
The role of the Student Advisor is that of a primary point of contact should someone have questions about the various programs and services in the Uni and for those that may have questions, issues or transgressions with regards to the Uni [[EVE University Rules|Rules]] or [[Wartime Standard Operating Procedures|WSOP]].  If an issue has been spotted they will contact you and help you understand your mistake so as to prevent that from becoming something that requires further action.  If they are unable to assist you in this you can expect the issue to be forwarded to higher management.  They essentially act as an educational point of contact to resolve any potential issues and help guide members with the vast amount of information available.
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The role of the Student Advisor is that of a primary point of contact should someone have questions about the various programs and services in the Uni and for those that may have questions, issues or transgressions with regards to the Uni [[EVE University Rules|Rules]].  If an issue has been spotted they will contact you and help you understand your mistake so as to prevent that from becoming something that requires further action.  If they are unable to assist you in this you can expect the issue to be forwarded to higher management.  They essentially act as an educational point of contact to resolve any potential issues and help guide members with the vast amount of information available.
  
 
Does this make Student Advisors like Mentors? The short answer is no.  [[Mentor Program|Mentors]] are experienced EVE University members (many who are Graduates) who take on a specialized education role in a one-on-one relationship with protégés (also known as mentees) assigned to them based on the specific area of game knowledge being sought.  Student Advisors are more like air traffic controllers, guiding those around the infrastucture and policies of the Uni helping to prevent accidents and such.
 
Does this make Student Advisors like Mentors? The short answer is no.  [[Mentor Program|Mentors]] are experienced EVE University members (many who are Graduates) who take on a specialized education role in a one-on-one relationship with protégés (also known as mentees) assigned to them based on the specific area of game knowledge being sought.  Student Advisors are more like air traffic controllers, guiding those around the infrastucture and policies of the Uni helping to prevent accidents and such.
 
  
 
=== List of Student Advisors ===
 
=== List of Student Advisors ===
  
* Laura Karpinski
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* Krcik88
* Tobias Checkov
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* Spanky Ikkala
* Turlough Dominian
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* Ulfric Beldrulf
* Rodrigo Rosenthal
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* Uncertain Fate
 
 
  
 
<br>
 
<br>
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== Are Personnel Officers also Student Guidance Department staff? ==
 
== Are Personnel Officers also Student Guidance Department staff? ==
  
Although some [[Personnel Department#List of current Personnel Officers|Personnel Officers]] may be Student Guidance Assistants or Student Advisors, Personnel Officers are not Student Guidance Department staff.  Personnel Officers review applications and make decisions on applicants.  They also introduce new members and provide them with [[Welcome to EVE University|critical information]] to orient them to the Uni they do not handle nor do they have authority to handle student Guidance issues.   
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Although some [[Personnel Department#Personnel Officers|Personnel Officers]] may be Assistant Guidance Managers or Student Advisors, Personnel Officers are not Student Guidance Department staff.  Personnel Officers review applications and make decisions on applicants.  They also introduce new members and provide them with [[Welcome to EVE University|critical information]] to orient them to the Uni they do not handle nor do they have authority to handle student Guidance issues.   
  
[[Personnel Department#List of current Personnel Officers|Personnel Officers]] are a very hard working crew and a great bunch. If you see one please thank them for all they do.  They are a great resource if you have any questions about the Uni and it's programs.
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[[Personnel Department#Personnel Officers|Personnel Officers]] are a very hard working crew and a great bunch. If you see one please thank them for all they do.  They are a great resource if you have any questions about the Uni and it's programs.
  
 
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*We contact members who have possibly had an issue or transgression with regards to our [[EVE University Rules|Rules]] or [[Wartime Standard Operating Procedures|WSOP]] and help them understand their mistakes to avoid further issues.
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*We contact members who have possibly had an issue or transgression with regards to our [[EVE University Rules|Rules]] and help them understand their mistakes to avoid further issues.
 
*We have staff on hand to assist and direct those who may be a little lost or overwhelmed with the information available and our various programs and services.
 
*We have staff on hand to assist and direct those who may be a little lost or overwhelmed with the information available and our various programs and services.
*We maintain and post in the Member Records forum area, lending our input to calm upset managers and directors, and to ensure any issues are handled as fairly as possible to whomever the issue is about.
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*We monitor the [http://killfeed.eveuniversity.org/?a=home Uni Killfeed] for WSOP issues and other odd-looking kills or losses.  This is where your comments on your kills and losses are most beneficial since (if done as required) they tell us what is going on and can help us to better assist you in the matter.
*We maintain a googledoc sheet called the "Memrec" or Member Records Sheet to track open issues as forums tend to get cluttered and issues can end up "forgotten".
 
*In extreme cases the SGM will make recommendations in the best interest of the Uni and all members to remove someone from the Uni when it's clear an issue can't be resolved.
 
*We monitor the [http://killfeed.eveuniversity.org/?a=home Uni Killfeed] for WSOP issues and other odd-looking kills or losses.  This is where your comments on your kills and losses are most beneficial since (if done as required) they tell us what is going on and can mitigate against any action or sanction that could occur otherwise.
 
 
*We moderate Uni chat channels and Mumble.
 
*We moderate Uni chat channels and Mumble.
 
*We give input where needed to all the Divisions of the Uni to ensure your needs and expectations are being met.  Note that some things we don't have any control over.
 
*We give input where needed to all the Divisions of the Uni to ensure your needs and expectations are being met.  Note that some things we don't have any control over.
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''Please note that if you have a general concern or issue that you wish to bring forward to the Management and Directorate you will want to contact the [[CEO#Student Advocate|Student Advocate]].''
 
''Please note that if you have a general concern or issue that you wish to bring forward to the Management and Directorate you will want to contact the [[CEO#Student Advocate|Student Advocate]].''
 
 
<br>
 
 
== I screwed up with the WSOP.  What can I expect? ==
 
 
When it comes to the [[Wartime Standard Operating Procedures|WSOP]] our goal is to first ensure you learn from the mistake and avoid future mistakes.  We're not here to catch you in a mistake and kick you for it.
 
 
 
 
In the event that you have either lost a [[Wartime Standard Operating Procedures#Pilots who accept the risk may fly...|"risk"]] ship or you've violated one of the basic must do's or must not do's...
 
 
*Own up to the mistake.  You can contact a Student Guidance staff member or other Manager and let us know what happened.  This will help mitigate against harsher consequences.
 
*If it involves a loss (or kill) make sure you comment on it.  [[How to Post A Killmail|Commenting]] on your loss (or kill) will again help mitigate against harsher consequences.
 
*Your Kill and Loss history will be reviewed. We'll be looking for comments, patterns, bad habits, signs of AFK (away from keyboard) losses.  [[Wartime_Standard_Operating_Procedures#You_should_fit...|Fits]] will also be looked at but only in regards to the WSOP.  Keep in mind that all kills and losses (including PvE losses) auto post to the killboard.
 
*There will be a post made in the Member Records about the incident.  Managers and Directors have access to this confidential forum and they make comments, suggestions, and the CEO and the Directors can issue decisions.
 
*Members of the Uni with 7 days or less (total time) in the Uni will be given more latitude of leniency with regards to consequences.  We will try and contact you to help you understand what went wrong and help you prevent similar losses/incidents.
 
*You may receive an [[Titles#.5BX.5D Administrative Suspension|[X] Title]].  While this title is applied any other Title progression will be suspended. 
 
*You may also have any current [[Titles Within EVE University|Titles]] reduced or removed.
 
*Titles suspension, reduction, or removal can be for a fixed period or an indefinite period.  This depends upon what you do following any WSOP issue. 
 
*You may be suspended from the Uni for a short period.  This can be 7 days or more.  If you are suspended we will send you notification.  You are welcome to re-apply to the Uni after that period.  You can expect to wait for an SPO interview.  You will continue to have Alumni access to our .E-UNI channels, Mumble, most of the Forums, and even many live classes.
 
*If the nature of your WSOP issue is consider severe, deliberate, or extremely foolish you may be removed from the Uni permanently.  You ''may'' still have alumni access as per the previous point.
 
*Multiple issues with regards to the WSOP can aggravate any current case against you.
 
 
If you have any concerns feel free to ask for help from students or staff.  Clarifications can be asked of Directors or any Records Department staff.  Be sure to take all precautions before you undock.  Consider getting out on a few PvP fleets.  We supply free T1 Frigates and Meta 0 modules, weapons, and ammunition/drones/crystals/scripts.  Getting your "feet wet" is a great way to learn.  And you can still do almost anything under the WSOP, you just need to take precautions, pay attention, and fly smart.  Don't forget you can always drop corp for a period, without consequence, and return when you're ready.  Even Titles you've had will restore fairly quickly.
 
  
 
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*Coming forward and owning up to the mistake will always be better than trying to avoid or hide from it.
 
*Coming forward and owning up to the mistake will always be better than trying to avoid or hide from it.
 
*There will be an entry made in the Member Records forum where your case and/or conduct will be reviewed and decided upon.
 
*There will be an entry made in the Member Records forum where your case and/or conduct will be reviewed and decided upon.
*You will most likely be suspended with the [[Titles#.5BX.5D Administrative Suspension|[X] Title]] until your case is investigated or resolved.
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*You will most likely suffer an administrative title suspension (temporary removal or downgrade of titles) until your case is investigated or resolved.
*It's important that you follow any interim instructions we issue to you.  Failure to do so can see you expelled from the Uni.
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*It's important that you follow any interim instructions issued to you.  Failure to do so can see you expelled from the Uni.
*You will also have any current [[Titles Within EVE University|Titles]] reduced or removed.
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*You may also have any current [[Titles Within EVE University|Titles]] reduced or removed.
 
*You may find yourself suspended from the Uni for a specified period.  You can re-apply after that period but expect to need an SPO or higher level interview.
 
*You may find yourself suspended from the Uni for a specified period.  You can re-apply after that period but expect to need an SPO or higher level interview.
 
*If the issue is extreme, deliberate, or shows a willful disregard for the [[EVE University Rules|Rules]] you will find yourself expelled from the Uni. You will most likely not be welcome back.
 
*If the issue is extreme, deliberate, or shows a willful disregard for the [[EVE University Rules|Rules]] you will find yourself expelled from the Uni. You will most likely not be welcome back.
 
*If you're suspended you will still have alumni access to most channels, the forum, Mumble, and many classes.  In more extreme cases you can find yourself banned from access to these.
 
*If you're suspended you will still have alumni access to most channels, the forum, Mumble, and many classes.  In more extreme cases you can find yourself banned from access to these.
  
If you're having issues following our [[EVE University Rules|Rules]] it could be that you have outgrown the Uni and are ready to move on.  There is nothing wrong with this.  The Uni is meant to be temporary.  It's better to move on and keep the good contacts and access.  And please talk to us if you have any concerns.  Clarifications can be asked of Directors or any Student Guidance management staff.   
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If you're having issues following our [[EVE University Rules|Rules]] it could be that you have outgrown the Uni and are ready to move on.  There is nothing wrong with this.  The Uni is meant to be temporary.  It's better to move on and keep the good contacts and access.  And please talk to us if you have any concerns.  Clarifications can be asked of Directors, managers or Student Guidance staff.   
  
 
<br>
 
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== I've lost Titles and my case is resolved.  When do I get them back? ==
 
== I've lost Titles and my case is resolved.  When do I get them back? ==
  
Once your case is resolved we will remove the [[Titles#.5BX.5D Administrative Suspension|[X] Title]].  You will then be able to progress with your [[Titles Within EVE University|Titles]].  If you had Titles reduced or removed for '''cause''' you will have to wait for the various tools, checks and updates to occur.  If you were suspended or expelled from the Uni once you are back in (if approved) you will have to wait to gain your titles back.
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Once your case is resolved, the handling director will restore you titles.  You will then be able to progress with your [[Titles Within EVE University|Titles]].  If you had Titles reduced or removed for '''cause''' you will have to wait for the suspension duration to expire, then reapply for the title. At this point, you will have to wait for the Titles Department normal procedure to process your application. Applications for restoration of titles following a suspension will not be expedited.  If you were suspended or expelled from the Uni once you are back in (if approved) you will have to wait to gain your titles back.
  
Sometimes we make an error, or your case was unfounded.  If your Titles were removed without '''cause''' then we will restore your titles immediately, or as quickly as we can.  If you were suspended or expelled from the Uni we will bring you back in as soon as allowed (wardecs will have an impact on how quickly we can bring you back in) and we will restore your titles as quickly as we can.
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Please note that while serving a title suspension, or waiting for your application for restoration, any activity that requires advancement title will be unavailable to you. This includes, but may not be limited to, the various E-Uni Campuses. In accordance with this rule, Campus Coordinators WILL NOT be permitted to issue title waivers to members awaiting restoration following a suspension.
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Sometimes errors are made, or your case was unfounded.  If your Titles were removed without '''cause''' then the handling director will restore your titles immediately, or as quickly as possible.  If you were suspended or expelled from the Uni, you will readmitted as soon as allowed (wardecs will have an impact on how quickly you can be brought back in) and your titles restored as soon as possible..
  
 
It does take a Director to apply titles so always be patient.
 
It does take a Director to apply titles so always be patient.
  
Outside of the [[Titles#.5BX.5D Administrative Suspension|[X] Title]] Student Guidance staff have nothing to do with [[Titles Within EVE University|Titles]].  [[Titles|Titles Staff]] are the ones who handle regular titles related concerns and you would need to contact them.  [[Titles|Titles Staff]] work very hard to ensure all students receive their titles in timely fashion.  Please note that any questions or concerns you have that are already explained on the [[Titles Within EVE University|Titles]] wiki page or in the [http://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=56588 Titles Questions Go Here] thread you most likely will not get an answer.
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Student Guidance staff have nothing to do with [[Titles Within EVE University|Titles]].  [[Titles|Titles Staff]] are the ones who handle regular titles related concerns and you would need to contact them.  [[Titles|Titles Staff]] work very hard to ensure all students receive their titles in timely fashion.  Please note that any questions or concerns you have that are already explained on the [[Titles Within EVE University|Titles]] wiki page or in the [http://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=56588 Titles Questions Go Here] thread you most likely will not get an answer.
 
 
 
 
 
 
[[Category:Policies]]
 
[[Category:Departments]]
 

Latest revision as of 21:58, 11 January 2017

EVE University logo This page's intent is to provide information on the the history of EVE University. The information on this page is no longer current.

This department is no longer in existence. The closest equivalent is the Orientation Department


This article is about the Student Guidance Department, how it fits within the Human Resources Division of EVE University, and how it serves the general membership.

The role of the Student Guidance Department is to offer guidance with regards to the various programs and services available in EVE University helping those who may be somewhat overwhelmed with what's available. Student Advisors exist to be a reliable, approachable and readily available source of information.

Student Guidance Manager

The Student Guidance Department is overseen and managed by the Student Guidance Manager (SGM).

Hannibal Barcca.jpg
Hannibal Barcca

About the role: The Student Guidance Manager essentially functions as a moderator, ensuring that Student Advisors continue to provide accurate and timely information. The manager also acts as a Student Advisor, assisting members who may be overwhelmed with what to do in regards to our many programs and services. Have you got an issue or need an explanation regarding our Rules or one of our various programs or services? Then the Student Guidance Manager or his Assistants and staff in the Student Guidance Department are the people you should speak to.

About the person: Data missing.

Assistants: Krcik88

Reports to: Director of HR

Assistant Guidance Managers

The role of the Assistant Guidance Managers is to provide additional points of contact for members and staff should any Guidance issues arise. They act with the authority of the SGM when the SGM is not available. They also assist the SGM with administrative side of the department and the training of Student Advisors.

Student Advisors

The role of the Student Advisor is that of a primary point of contact should someone have questions about the various programs and services in the Uni and for those that may have questions, issues or transgressions with regards to the Uni Rules. If an issue has been spotted they will contact you and help you understand your mistake so as to prevent that from becoming something that requires further action. If they are unable to assist you in this you can expect the issue to be forwarded to higher management. They essentially act as an educational point of contact to resolve any potential issues and help guide members with the vast amount of information available.

Does this make Student Advisors like Mentors? The short answer is no. Mentors are experienced EVE University members (many who are Graduates) who take on a specialized education role in a one-on-one relationship with protégés (also known as mentees) assigned to them based on the specific area of game knowledge being sought. Student Advisors are more like air traffic controllers, guiding those around the infrastucture and policies of the Uni helping to prevent accidents and such.

List of Student Advisors

  • Krcik88
  • Spanky Ikkala
  • Ulfric Beldrulf
  • Uncertain Fate


Are Personnel Officers also Student Guidance Department staff?

Although some Personnel Officers may be Assistant Guidance Managers or Student Advisors, Personnel Officers are not Student Guidance Department staff. Personnel Officers review applications and make decisions on applicants. They also introduce new members and provide them with critical information to orient them to the Uni they do not handle nor do they have authority to handle student Guidance issues.

Personnel Officers are a very hard working crew and a great bunch. If you see one please thank them for all they do. They are a great resource if you have any questions about the Uni and it's programs.


What duties does the Student Guidance Department carry on?

The scope of the duties is to ensure that the Uni is running smoothly as possible with all members following rules, policies, procedures, and protocols, and not letting issues grow to the point of explosions. Those should be for pew-pew. We also assist members when they have questions or are overwhelmed with the amount of information on the Uni's various programs and services.


  • We contact members who have possibly had an issue or transgression with regards to our Rules and help them understand their mistakes to avoid further issues.
  • We have staff on hand to assist and direct those who may be a little lost or overwhelmed with the information available and our various programs and services.
  • We monitor the Uni Killfeed for WSOP issues and other odd-looking kills or losses. This is where your comments on your kills and losses are most beneficial since (if done as required) they tell us what is going on and can help us to better assist you in the matter.
  • We moderate Uni chat channels and Mumble.
  • We give input where needed to all the Divisions of the Uni to ensure your needs and expectations are being met. Note that some things we don't have any control over.


What do I do if I have a complaint?

Should you have a complaint with another member, a staff member, manager, or even a director that has not been resolved of it's own accord then you will need to contact the Student Advocate. The Student Guidance Department no longer handles these as they did under their previous iteration as the Student Relations Department.

Please note that if you have a general concern or issue that you wish to bring forward to the Management and Directorate you will want to contact the Student Advocate.


I've broken a Rule or have caused other trouble. What can I expect?

In order for EVE University to be able to carry on it's mandate it's important that all are following the Rules to the best of their abilities. If Rules are broken or other actions or behaviours occur this can be very disruptive to your fellow students/corp mates. In some cases they can affect the Uni in external or political ways that are detrimental.


  • Coming forward and owning up to the mistake will always be better than trying to avoid or hide from it.
  • There will be an entry made in the Member Records forum where your case and/or conduct will be reviewed and decided upon.
  • You will most likely suffer an administrative title suspension (temporary removal or downgrade of titles) until your case is investigated or resolved.
  • It's important that you follow any interim instructions issued to you. Failure to do so can see you expelled from the Uni.
  • You may also have any current Titles reduced or removed.
  • You may find yourself suspended from the Uni for a specified period. You can re-apply after that period but expect to need an SPO or higher level interview.
  • If the issue is extreme, deliberate, or shows a willful disregard for the Rules you will find yourself expelled from the Uni. You will most likely not be welcome back.
  • If you're suspended you will still have alumni access to most channels, the forum, Mumble, and many classes. In more extreme cases you can find yourself banned from access to these.

If you're having issues following our Rules it could be that you have outgrown the Uni and are ready to move on. There is nothing wrong with this. The Uni is meant to be temporary. It's better to move on and keep the good contacts and access. And please talk to us if you have any concerns. Clarifications can be asked of Directors, managers or Student Guidance staff.


I've lost Titles and my case is resolved. When do I get them back?

Once your case is resolved, the handling director will restore you titles. You will then be able to progress with your Titles. If you had Titles reduced or removed for cause you will have to wait for the suspension duration to expire, then reapply for the title. At this point, you will have to wait for the Titles Department normal procedure to process your application. Applications for restoration of titles following a suspension will not be expedited. If you were suspended or expelled from the Uni once you are back in (if approved) you will have to wait to gain your titles back.

Please note that while serving a title suspension, or waiting for your application for restoration, any activity that requires advancement title will be unavailable to you. This includes, but may not be limited to, the various E-Uni Campuses. In accordance with this rule, Campus Coordinators WILL NOT be permitted to issue title waivers to members awaiting restoration following a suspension.

Sometimes errors are made, or your case was unfounded. If your Titles were removed without cause then the handling director will restore your titles immediately, or as quickly as possible. If you were suspended or expelled from the Uni, you will readmitted as soon as allowed (wardecs will have an impact on how quickly you can be brought back in) and your titles restored as soon as possible..

It does take a Director to apply titles so always be patient.

Student Guidance staff have nothing to do with Titles. Titles Staff are the ones who handle regular titles related concerns and you would need to contact them. Titles Staff work very hard to ensure all students receive their titles in timely fashion. Please note that any questions or concerns you have that are already explained on the Titles wiki page or in the Titles Questions Go Here thread you most likely will not get an answer.