User:Chris Halsky/Terrible Abyss Guide

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TAG!

Well, time for my own Abyss guide. Because why not :)

General idea - take a ship, make 50 runs, and that will give you enough ISK to upgrade for another Tier. It doesn't work as well as I intended, and I need to stretch the definition of "afford to upgrade". What does work though - each ship as described here is very safe. I did dozens of runs so far on each Tier, and never lost a ship (currently running T2s, it might change with higher Tiers!). Fits are also overtanked, and last section (coming in the late, late future) will use this fact.

So far we got:

  • T0 - ships costs about 31M, and makes about 770k / run. It's terrible, but it's a first step. Payback is 3h - not bad. You will need approximately 50 runs to upgrade into T1 (ship stays the same).
  • T1 - ship is about 90M, which is expensive. It makes about 3.2M per run, and payback is 8h. You will need just a bit over 60 runs to get new ship for T2s (if you factor sale of T1 ship - 50 runs might be enough)
  • T2 - ship is about 200M. Again, more than my ideal 50 runs, but it's a terrible guide ;) Currently it makes around 3.5M per run, and payback is 10h.


Why?

Well, there are several good guides, I might as well make a Terrible one. Initial idea was to use Caldari missile ships and go for different Tiers in different ship sizes - but that doesn't really work as I'd like it, as when you go up a tier and also up a ship size, it gets more difficult, but not more profitable. So preferably you'd skip Tiers, but that's a bad idea - progression jumps way too hard, and I find it risky (as my friend said: "Too chicken for that")

The plan has changed then - to use only one ship 'family' - Caldari Cruisers with HAMs - and have progression going up in step-by-step way. I 'think' that Caracal -> Caracal Navy -> Cerberus offers good enough progression, so let's try to make it :)


Initially when creating this guide I wanted to say 'Feel free to start anywhere on the path' and call it good enough. But that's not really true - I found myself that running a lot of Abyss gives you experience in running Abyss (duh!), and that's invaluable. Yes, my ships are ISK-tanked and are generally safe - but the more experience you get, the better you will be at running Abyss. Do A LOT of each tier, and you'll be fine :)


Step 1 - you'll get bored



Caracal: T0 Dark
EFT
[Caracal, T0 Dark]
Prototype 'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I
Prototype 'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I
Prototype 'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I
Prototype 'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I
Prototype 'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I

Medium Clarity Ward Enduring Shield Booster
10MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner
Multispectrum Shield Hardener II
Large Compact Pb-Acid Cap Battery
X5 Enduring Stasis Webifier

Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Power Diagnostic System II

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium EM Shield Reinforcer I


Hornet I x2

Scourge Heavy Assault Missile x10000
Tranquil Dark Filament x1

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FITTING DIFFICULTY
EVE VERSION
2023.9.13
ALPHA CAN USE
YES
EFT
SKILLS
NOTES
RECOMMENDED SKILLS
  • Advanced Weapon Upgrades I
  • Caldari Cruiser IV
  • Energy Grid Upgrades IV
  • Missile Lanucher Operation IV
  • Heavy Assault Missiles IV
  • Hull Upgrades IV
  • Shield Management/Operation IV
  • Tactical Shield Manipulation IV


    See "Notes" for my stats in that fit.
NOTES
  • T0 Dark - Chris Halsky.png


Why would you run T0s in Caracal?
Well, good question, and I wouldn't - but it's a first step. Other missile ships do not have 'clean' progression, and I tried Abyss in Caldari Cruisers, going up step by step. Feel free to skip whatever step you don't like.

Running this one, given you have decent skills (and decent skills are generally needed - aim for IV in whatever looks like it fits) is super easy. Orbit cache (you might send drones to kill it), web stuff, shoot stuff, done. Fit is cap stable, and should have no issues at all in T0. Along the way start upgrading your fit towards T1 - when you feel like you're ready, go to T1 :)

Notable spawns:

  • Ephialtes - will stay out of your web range - ram it. Just like that, Approach it with everything on, web it, kill it.
  • Skybreaker - will mangle your drones if you are too close. Recall drones, web it, kill it.
  • Orange cloud of Cap Issues - if you're inside you need to watch your cap. And do not run your Shield Booster all the time.
  • White cloud of zoooom - while inside, you will not be able to recall your drones - they will fly past you. And you might run into the wall.


My runs: https://abysstracker.com/fit/15876

Step 2 - "Impecunious"



Caracal: T1 Dark
EFT
[Caracal, T1 Dark]
Prototype 'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I
Prototype 'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I
Prototype 'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I
Prototype 'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I
Prototype 'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I

Dread Guristas Medium Shield Booster
10MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner
Multispectrum Shield Hardener II
Large Compact Pb-Acid Cap Battery
X5 Enduring Stasis Webifier

Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium EM Shield Reinforcer II


Caldari Navy Hornet x2

Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile x6
Calm Dark Filament

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FITTING DIFFICULTY
EVE VERSION
2023.9.19
ALPHA CAN USE
NO
EFT
SKILLS
NOTES
RECOMMENDED SKILLS
NOTES
  • T1 Dark - Chris Halsky.png


But it is bad!
This is just an evolution of T0 fit. It does have some upgrades though:

  • Faction Drones and Ammo - as we need DPS. As much DPS as possible*
  • Faction Shield Booster - it's better, and we need it for T2 anyway (edit: in the end I decided for different T2 fit. Sorry!)
  • T2 rigs - as we need PG

It does need more time per run - assume that you need 50%-100% more to complete a run than T0s. So if you get T0 runs over 10:00 - get better missile skills, or you'll race the clock.

It flies almost the same as T0, with one exception - way less cap. It HAS TO be cap stable, to make easier runs - but if you encounter Neuts (rare in T1, but can happen) or Orange Cloud start switching your booster on and off - you'll need it anyway for higher tiers

Profitabliy: Not greatest. It is less profitable than T0 fit, if you collect only Bioadaptive Caches. Treat it as training exercise - we'll get to better runs later :)

Notable spawns:

  • Leshak - orbit at 10km, and he won't hit you. Will move around, watch for red wall.
  • Vila whatever - ignore swarmers completely, they can't hit anything.
  • Karybdis Tyrannos - orbit at 15km and shoot with all you got.
  • Tessera (drone BC) - will try to kill your drones. And it will do it fast. Do not send out drones.
  • 3x Devoted Hunter - stay at range. They will hurt a bit, but if you remove them fast it will be ok.
  • Attacker Marshal - will not break your tank. Uses missiles, so get close to web it - but keep moving fast.
  • Devoted Knight - Neuts. Orbit at 20, so neuts are not so bad.
  • Photic Abyssal Overmind - Drone BS. Will hit hard, but misses a lot - try to orbit them at 5km
  • Cynabal - Neuts, Webs, and brings friends. Stay at 20km, shoot, when he gets close and webs you - web him back


My runs: https://abysstracker.com/fit/15927

Runs breakdown
Variant Min Time Average Time Max Time Average ISK Average ISK/h Comment
Default fit
Navy Missiles, only Bioadaptive Cache looted
6:29 8:16 9:52 1,04M 7,5M Average of 20 runs. All runs with T1 Dark fit, from 18.09 till 28.09 on Abyss Tracker. Run times are very consistent, and never went above 10:00. So I did trial number 2 below.
Cheaper runs
Normal missiles, only Bioadaptive Cache
6:30 8:49 11:10 1,42M 9,66M Marginally slower, but better ISK/h - due to lower missile price. Run times also generally consistent (slowest run - 2x Photic BS, which took some time). Next trial - with MTU.
Greedy
Normal missiles, MTU to collect all nodes
8:47 11:43 15:04 2,85M 14,63M Surprising. Significant time increase, but also ISK/h increase.


My conclusion (feel free to disagree) - test your fit. If you are sure that longer run times will not be a problem - get T1/T2 ammo instead faction. If you are then sure you have enough time - start MTU shanenigans, even if it means a bit more time. It might not be that clear in higher tiers though.

Step 3 - In the navy...



Caracal Navy Issue: T2 Dark
EFT
[Caracal Navy Issue, T2 Dark]
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II

Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
10MN Monopropellant Enduring Afterburner
Multispectrum Shield Hardener II
Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery
X5 Enduring Stasis Webifier
Shield Boost Amplifier II

Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Medium Thermal Shield Reinforcer II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II


Caldari Navy Hornet x5

Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile x5000
Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile x5000
Agitated Dark Filament x1

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FITTING DIFFICULTY
EVE VERSION
2024.1.3
ALPHA CAN USE
NO
EFT
SKILLS
NOTES
RECOMMENDED SKILLS
NOTES
  • T2 Dark - Chris Halsky.png


Navy Caracal? Why is that?
Well, we need to reach DPS target, and normal Caracal was not enough. Fit is also a bit different:

  • Deadspace Shield Booster. It's pricy, but I felt like it's needed (it should be possible to run without it, but I tend to patch my bad skills with ISK).
  • Thermal rig instead of EM. Two reasons - first, EDENCOM ships deal Thermal damage, and they are not affected by turret penalty. Second - it aligns better with next steps, as EM will always be our worst resist.
  • T2 Launchers - DPS!


Which missiles?
Good question! I didn't knew it myself before I started T2s. There are 2 options:

  • Navy missiles + Rage against BSes - that seems to be good option, but eats a lot of ISK from every run
  • Rage missiles only - the most "paper DPS", but worse application. But we have web, so maybe application is good?

There was no other way to be sure, than to test it! So I did - 20 runs of each method, to compare average run times and average ammo cost.

Runs breakdown
Variant Min Time Average Time Max Time Consumables cost[1] Comment
Faction missiles, Rage only against BS 8:29 10:30 13:01 900k Almost 1M for missiles. Ooof, takes out quite a chunk of ISK. Only biocache looted.
Only Rage missiles. 10:31 13:00 20:00+[2] 98k Definitely slower, but 800k saved per run. Doesn't mean much in ISK, but longer run time hurts a lot. Not worth it.
  1. ^ Includes filament cost, but it's negligible
  2. ^ I cheated. I could not kill 6 Damaviks, application was not enough. I would've failed one run, so I switched to Navy missiles for one pocket

Well, be reasonable. Rages are cheaper, but can't run everything - so use Faction ammo where necessary.

Notable spawns:

  • Devoted Knight & 4x Devoted Hunters - will break your tank if you're not fast. Load Faction ammo, shoot Knight first
  • 3x Cynabals - looks scary, but they will come close, and you're quite resistant to Neuts, so take them one by one and it's good. You will be webbed to stop though.
  • Arrester Marshal - will web you and hit you hard. It is the perfect justification of Thermal rig - it 'almost' breaks your tank. Overheat if needed.
  • 2x Tessera + 4x Webbing Tessellas - you should not approach them, let Tesselas come to you and kill them first. If you get 4x webbed between two Tessera, you'll have a problem
  • Harrowing Vedmak + a lot of Damaviks - Vedmak will try to kite you. Either pilot to web it, or overheat your web to get more range


My runs: https://abysstracker.com/fit/16599

What about Exotic?

Ha, good question! Since we're running Scourge missiles (why change, when next step has Cerberus that is Kinteic locked anyway?), Exotic Abyss looks promising. Expectations:

  • More DPS = faster clear times.
  • Kinetic penalty = more damage taken.
  • No range penalty = much more damage taken!
  • We're slower = a bit more damage taken, but that's not the issue. We will travel for longer, so longer clear times?
  • Better web efficiency - enemies in Darks move 50% faster (kinda, it's complex) when webbed, in Exotics not - so webs will be fully effective

Hard to say if it's better or not, or if it's even feasible. Should be, but nothing can't be said without 20 test runs :)
Exotic notes:

  • Faster run times due to 'better' DPS, lower ammo use, but tank is a bit weaker
  • It is worth having Standard Blue Pill in cargo, just in case of difficult spawns
Runs breakdown
Variant Min Time Average Time Max Time Consumables cost Comment
Exotics, 40 runs 6:51 09:12 12:10 ~750k As expected. Darks are quite good with heavy Kinetic bonus.

Notable spawns:

  • 2x Devoted Knight - they will apply much sooner, and they will break your tank. Overheat liberally, get close to kill one ASAP

Κέρβερος

Dark fit goes here

Exotic fit goes here


Cerberus. Big leap in investment - T3 variant is almost 500M.

Notable differences:

  • More tank and more DPS - check skills in fit above for what I had when I did my runs
  • Way more range. No more hugging before you shoot - with 30km HAM range you can attack way sooner
  • Drones are useless - send them out, but don't count on any meaningful DPS


Configurations:
Fit has Multispectrum Shield Hardener in cargo. The base idea was to have it in two main configurations:

  • Double Web - for Darks (lower tank requirements, but web efficiency is lowered)
  • Web + Hardener - for Exotics
  • But I also want to test Web + Hardener for Darks - maybe it's actually good?


Notable spawns:

  • 3x Cynabals (out of which 2 are Elite) - that did break my tank. I popped Blue Pill, and it was ok. Keep in mind that drawbacks (application and capacitor) might cause different problems, but I'd rather have cap management issues with lower DPS, than lose the ship completely. Pre-rolling Blue Pill is possible, but seems... excessive.