Template talk:Perfect refiner

Template Goals

This topic is copied from User talk:Devalt Yotosala/Sandbox1/Template:Infobox refiner

I suspect part of the problem here is that we don't have a clearly defined set of goals for what this template is meant to accomplish. I think there is some merit to discussing what exactly we want to prioritize in the design of the template.

Some thoughts:

• Readability - How easy it is for a lay person to get the knowledge needed by reading the page
• Searchability - How easy it is for a lay person to get the knowledge needed via a browser search function
• Visual Clarity - How clearly the information is organized and presented
• Consistency - How consistent each entry will be
• Maintainability - How easy it will be for future wiki staff to understand and maintain
• Ease of Use - How easy it will be for refiners to add to the page
• Recognition vs Recall - How much a user can visually recognize vs need to recall to use the page effectively

I recognize there may be some overlap here - this is just a list of potential criteria or priorities. Additional criteria or other thoughts are welcome. --Devalt Yotosala (talk) 23:04, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

I like the requirements - and love the approach. I'll put some thought into it, but right out of the gate, I would add the refiners themselves to the maintainability category - how easy is it for them to update their own profile? --Anidien Dallacort (talk) 17:55, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

When I proposed the project I purposefully left it vague to indicate that it is up to the editor who will implement the Project to decide the trade-offs. Remember, Cost Of Perfection Is Infinite. It is much more important to complete the project, than to give up because you couldn't achieve all your stated goals.

I'm excited to see what you'll pick and how the final implementation will look like! Arin Mara (talk) 19:55, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

Maybe we should let go of the {{Infobox}} template for this and use a dedicated template? I did a couple of rough mock-ups on my draft page. --Evon R'al (talk) 14:21, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

Mock-ups look great! They are styled like the current Perfect Refiner Page, the text is CTRL+F searchable and the table looks good on mobile phone. Unused vertical space is an artifact of large resolutions, so no worries there. The mock-ups stack well, one on top of the other. I like the no-image-and-show-all-skills mock the most: the image distracts me and hiding skills doesn't save on space, bu does make my eyes dart around.

Both the Infobox and the mock-up implementation place capsuleers at the center of attention rather than refining skills. There's absolutely nothing with with that. After all, the Page is called Perfect Refiners not Perfect Refining Skills.

Devalt, take a look, make the decision, state the trade-offs, document the Template, send it for a final technical review before publishing and finally put all the Perfect Refiner information into the newly made Template. Arin Mara (talk) 13:53, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Unfortunately showing all skills, regardless of their level, breaks the use of CTRL+F because then all refiners have all skills. While a user is only interested in high refining skills. For that we should set a limit of when to show, only V or maybe V and IV. The only way I see, at the moment, to put the skills at the center would be a list/table with the skills with links to the refiners. That however would give 2 places where the info needs to be synchronized. And for "larger" numbers of refiners that will lead to a rather big list. --Evon R'al (talk) 14:20, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

I like the suppress unknown skills template, and agree a limit of V - or IV and V - is what we are looking for here. --Anidien Dallacort (talk) 14:23, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Please elaborate on how the CTRL+F breaks. Perhaps an important detail slipped my mind.

If I CTRL+F "Abyssal Ore Processing", yes it will highlight all Refiners. However, I'll CTRL+F "Abyssal Ore Processing V" or "Abyssal Ore Processing IV" and then it'll only highlight those Refiners that have those skills. All other skills will have their names displayed, but not their levels.

The only problem I foresee is CTRL+F-ing for "Abyssal Ore Processing I" which will than highlight "Abyssal Ore Processing IV" and "II" and "III", but we are only discussing displaying V and IV skills.

Let's table the discussion about how to create a Page that will also be in sync with the Perfect Refiner List Page. As Evon pointed out, it may conflict with the Maintain A Single Source Of Truth. Arin Mara (talk) 17:02, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

The way the mock-up's are constructed now the skill name and the level are in different table cells. Therefore adding the level to the skill does not work. I will look into that some more as I am not completely happy with the way it works yet. --Evon R'al (talk) 18:12, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

I see! Hmm... very well! Since you've invested so much effort into the Project implementation I've found it fitting to add you to the list of Project editors. Arin Mara (talk) 19:31, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

I know I'm too lazy to CTRL+F "Abyssal Ore Processing V". I'd rather just CTRL+F "Abyssal". That's why I like the suppress unknown skills template Evon has. It takes the CTRL+F "hit" out of the refiner who doesn't have level V (or IV) in that skill. It also simultaneously searches IV and V, if we use near-perfect. We set the rules for the page that you can't enter a level below IV or V (depending on the final route taken). I also 100% agree with not creating two sources of the same data. Though Arin totally missed out on an opportunity to ask us to "table the discussion on the table" --Anidien Dallacort (talk) 05:35, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

HAHAHAHHAHAHHA Welp. I'm sure there will be another golden opportunity to play with word tables. :P Arin Mara (talk) 19:31, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Agreed. I like that design and the dedicated template. Evon, once the template is in a state you're happy with, let me know and we can move on with the remaining steps in the project. --Devalt Yotosala (talk) 22:05, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

I have been "playing" with the template. The detailed skills are on there twice now for comparison. The first option has the skills always in the same position. This leaves "holes" for the non perfect skills. The second option has the skills always in the same order without the holes. See this demo. Tel me what you think about it, which do you prefer? Also the image should we keep it or remove it from the card? As far as I can see it is just eye candy and does not add any information. --Evon R'al (talk) 13:39, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Let's go with the skills always being in the same position - it'll let people build muscle memory when it comes to determining the skills a refiner has. We can also keep the image - you're right in that it is just eye candy, but given the template format, it's not really consuming any space that could be better prioritized. --Devalt Yotosala (talk) 16:57, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

I like same position also - the holes are fine, they are self explanatory. I also like the pictures as a clear visual break between refiners. --Anidien Dallacort (talk) 21:25, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

RC1 is ready. Demo and template. Have a look at the documentation please? --Evon R'al (talk) 14:58, 6 August 2022 (UTC)