User talk:Elan Vital/Draft

Feedback about the guide

Hi Elan! :) I'm super excited to have another guide appear on the Wiki :) I believe the Wiki is an excellent publishing platform and will give you plenty of support to prepare the guide for publishing :) I've asked my good friend User:Chris Halsky who is an expert mission runner to review the page and give feedback. Arin Mara (talk) 19:57, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

Hey! I am not someone to ask about mission-running, but I'm very happy to have a go at copy-editing / proof-reading this at some point when that would be helpful (I won't dive in and intervene unprompted, because I don't want to mess up work in progress). Message me if you'd like me to do this at some point! Uryence (talk) 23:46, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

Awesome! :) Thanks Uryence! :) Let's have Chris give their feedback first and then I'll contact you about additional guide enhancement ;) Arin Mara (talk) 08:16, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

Chris Halsky (talk) 16:56, 28 April 2022 (UTC) o/

\o I have read it through a number of times. I believe I have addressed all the excellent feedback I received from User:Chris Halsky. It feels like it is getting there. --Elan Vital (talk) 01:35, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

I'll go through whole article, I'm sorry for wall of text, and that it seems like nitpicking a lot

1. General - mentions of Eve Uni specifically. I would move it to the end - to have guide first, Uni-specific topic later

1.1 - EVE University Mission Community - move it to the end. And I find that name weird - we do nto have anything recognized as such community (name suggest it's similar to Incursions Community). Personal nitpick - does it include JPNS or Ghad, or is it 'part' of Uni?

This was something I didn't know how to accommodate. There definitely is a lowercase c community within Uni, loosely associated, yet not an official Uni group and when I drafted this, I was thinking about them. I was running with L4 fleets and I wanted something that would encourage others to join in. It also explains the very HSC-specific references. This is whole guide evolved over time and likely explains much. In looking at it now, it probably doesn't even belong in here. Reading and reflecting upon Chris Halsky's comments has me convinced that all the Uni mission references should go away and be replaced by one very specific reference about where a member might find mission fleets. I think this guide probably serves players better if it gives an idea of how a mission fleet might run, not necessarily a Uni mission fleet. --Elan Vital (talk) 18:07, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

1.2 - Why Run L4 Missions with a Fleet? - good, I could see a link to Security missions there

Will do --Elan Vital (talk) 18:07, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

1.3 and 1.3.1 - unnecessary level of ToC; Regarding experience - I would assume that basic knowledge of missions is nice to have. I doubt that any L4 fleet could accomodate day 1 pilot with 0 knowledge. Regarding "or whether you own a suitable ship" - depends on FC, as in Uni we generally do not take anything smaller than a Cruiser to fleet due to risk. Some FCs do, some don't, but generally - Cruiser and up.

I think this is very reasonable and sensible. It really functions better as a guide if it gives, well, guidance. --Elan Vital (talk) 18:07, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

1.4 and 1.4.1/1.4.2 - is that deep ToC necessary? Regarding "You are welcome to bring any PvE-fitted ship that you feel like flying" - not true for all fleets, as above. "though tanky cruisers may work in some situations" - in general the requirement always was Cruisers and up, and Cruiser do work in fleets. "message a member of the L4 Mission Community team" - what's that community? "For more information, contact <somebody>." - unfinished

The deep TOC is almost assuredly unnecessary. --Elan Vital (talk) 18:07, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

1.5 Where, When, and Who - You mention Fridays and Sundays, but not Mondays. Also - if fleet times are posted on Wiki, it's another obligation to fix. I would change it to "Check on clendar and Events forum to find details of next L4 fleet" or similiar, not 'just in case'. Where - Hotel doesn't exist. And not necessarily in Amy, and again it's obligation to keep it up to date. Who - no who part?

Makes perfect sense to me. --Elan Vital (talk) 18:07, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

1.6 - Mission Fleet Basics for New Players - Personal nitpick - always mention rule 0 if meking up any rules - newbros need to be educated about it.

I've never heard it called Rule 0 and I don't know how I missed putting it in there. --Elan Vital (talk) 18:07, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

1.6.1 - From Joining Fleet to Fleet Operations: Checklist-ish? - That's unnecessary to be under 1.6, and I think it deserved to be it's own point, maybe subdivided, on top of the article - it's a very good guide, probably useful for wider audience, if stripped from Uni-specific terms (Mumble, HSC, etc.). Anomics are mentioned - half true, as a fleet of 4 can wreck teams in dirt cheap Kestrels. "FC will take care of organizing looting and salvaging" - that suggest that fleets always have dedicated salvagers, which they don't. Regarding re-boxing - "If you did not align, now is not the time" - this might be misunderstood - like, if you are not aligned, stay on grid.

I will clean this up according to your feedback here. I can't remember where I got the anomics line. I read it somewhere. It is probably just enough to suggest not pulling them. --Elan Vital (talk) 18:07, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Realized that the line about anomics was my attempt to summarize the bullet pointed description at the top of Anomic missions. I'll make it more general. --Elan Vital (talk) 20:56, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Sorry for picking such small stuff :) In general it's very good to have such guide.

Sorry? How could I be anything but happy that you took the time to review it and give such detailed feedback? And I'm not trying to turn this into a therapy session, but one of the big challenges I had from my early days in Uni was how helpful, generous, and kind people had been and feeling like I was only taking. I wrote this hodgepodge because it was the first time I saw a topic that I thought might be good for the Wiki while thinking I could actually contribute something. It is daunting to write something worthy of publishing here because the quality is so high. I didn't know how to move it forward as I know little to nothing of the style guide and other standards. You and anyone else who takes the time to help make into something useful and accurate has only my appreciation. --Elan Vital (talk) 18:07, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Side question - similiar thing for FCs would also be useful.