User talk:Drebin 679

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Revision as of 16:09, 22 November 2020 by Qwer Stoneghost (talk | contribs)
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Hi. I appreciate your analysis ... it's very helpful. One overarching response: UniWiki seems to serve two conflicting audiences: expert players who want detailed, analytic insight into the bowels of the game, and new players who are trying to integrate a wide variety of factual bits and want surveys and examples. I got started trying to edit here when I wanted to find the basic difference between a missile and a projectile, and the two pages were mostly mathematics about explosion radius and falloff distance. I understand those now, but at the time it was very frustrating.

  • Tanking. The question that new players ask is "how should I fit my frigate?" They're really not interested in the math of stacking penalties - nor should they be ... one of the things that makes this game so much fun is that there's always more to learn. But I agree with you that the sample fits are out of place. I'll delete them.
  • Note: when UniWiki removed the fittings examples from its ship description pages, it didn't just delete information, it deleted authority. Experts argue about how to best fit ship for a given situation, but new players just want to see a fit or two that experts generally agree is OK. (EVE Workbench doesn't provide that ... it's impossible to tell which of their fittings work well.) I can see why it's controversial, but it stills feels like an unfilled need.
  • Weapons. The definition of "weapon" is a module that affects an enemy ship. That doesn't necessarily imply damage. It looks to me like E-War is on the line between damage and logistics. But unless it is its own category, it has to be something. (I don't have any experience with the newest weapons, so someone else will have to make those changes.)
  • Scanning. If you're a new player, who has never dealt with the words "directional" or "probe", and you type "scanning" into the search box, what should happen? I looked at some of the page links. Many, if not most, of them deal with exploration, and the Exploration template has "scanning" in its list. I don't see why that necessarily should take you to probe scanning, as d-scan is pretty useful in exploration. Many of the others are lines like: "You may refer to the Scanning and Exploration guides if you want to learn about finding wormholes." If you want to delete the page, I won't argue, but I don't quite understand your point ... what did the word "scanning" link to before? Or am I not understanding the problem?
  • Yeah, you're surely right that there are a number of incomplete entries, not to mention flat out errors. Ummm ... there's a lot I don't know; and so it goes. I don't envy you the job of trying to keep all this info straight.
  • Missiles are slow: The new player's question is - "what's the difference between a missile and a laser?" How do you answer that in one sentence? This gets back to my earlier point. Expert players will read that box and laugh at how simplistic it is. But new players will, one hopes, realize that missiles have to travel while laser beams are instantaneous. Again, if you want to delete it, I won't argue. But I don't see that it's enormously misleading.
  • I get your point on the small edits. If I keep editing, I'll find a way to make fewer small changes.
  • I went to this page UniWiki:To-Do List expecting to find a list of things to do. User:Noemie belacqua is listed at the bottom as one of the curators, and since I had talked to her a year or two ago, I went to check her page. Her to-do list is still up, and there's no obvious way to see that she's not active.
  • I'll have to think about whether or not I want to keep doing this. I honestly don't have time for bureaucracy, benign as it might be. And my main purpose is, you know, to play the game.
  • No hard feelings. I DO appreciate your comments - insight into how this wiki works is good stuff.
  • Take care and stay safe.

Qwer Stoneghost talk Sun, Nov 22, 2020 11:01 EST US


Hi

I saw that you are working on an overview of Capital-specific modules in https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/User:Drebin_679/Sandbox_5 THat's a very nice idea as it's a missing page. I want to share some thoughts though. First about the oprganisation, modules like the siege module are already described in detail on the page Dreadnoughts and again on Capital ships. If the stats are changed you would have to change them at three places. My suggestion is give the module its own section in Dreadnoughts and add a page "siege module" which forwards there. In the pages "Capital-specific modules" and Capital ships remove the exact stats. Same for nearly all those modules. This way the page is indeed only an overview page.

You forgot to add the "Jump Portal Generator I" if I see it right. I would also merge the carrier sections into "(Super-)Carriers" and then point out that NSAs can be fitted to both while Burst Projection oonly to supers. That also makes me notice that you don't mention the Fighter Support Unit (FSU) which also can only be fitted to (Super-)Carriers.

I'll have a look at the Capital ships page to maybe streamline it a bit. (atm it's a bit inconsistent.)

Keep up the good work Erwin madelung (talk) 04:23, 12 June 2019 (CDT)

Oh, thanks! I did miss out on both the Jump Portal Generator, the Fighter Support Unit, and the Clone Vat Bay. I'll add those in another edit. Regarding the stat duplication issue, I might try and transclude individual modules from their ship pages, and see how that goes. That way, if a module's stats are changed, only one page has to be edited. Drebin 679 (talk) 14:02, 14 June 2019 (CDT)
Any plan to release the page from the sandbox? Maybe you could add the titan and super modules to their respective pages. Titans looks very empty and sad. I would like to fill it a bit more but would consider it bad taste to copy your work from your sandbox. That's usually a kind of faux pas. cheers Erwin madelung (talk) 08:29, 27 September 2019 (CDT)


About your changes to the tengu page. Good idea to add the subsystems but the Magnetic Infusion Basin stats are the ones of the covert(?) subsystem atm. I don't have time to check the proper stats right now and check all the other entries. Please recheck those stats. Cheers. Erwin madelung (talk) 15:42, 2 September 2019 (CDT)

Thanks for catching that Erwin. A copypasta miss that I did. The stats should be correct now. Drebin 679 (talk) 16:04, 2 September 2019 (CDT)
It still had some stats wrong. I corrected them now. As a tip, create tables in a spreadsheet (excel/google/open office) and then use tools to create the wiki code. You can find such tools easily when using your favourite search enginge. It might also be nicer to have "Additional Base Stats" in one more column instead of merging it with "Role Bonus". Would probably look nicer I might try it later. Erwin madelung (talk) 04:33, 3 September 2019 (CDT)
I suggest something like:
Erwin madelung (talk) 05:31, 3 September 2019 (CDT)
Hey Erwin. I finally followed up on your suggestions, and the suggestions that others have made regarding the tables. I have a new set of tables set up for the Loki. https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/index.php?title=User:Drebin_679/Sandbox_2&oldid=14727 is the link to the current iteration of the page. A note though was that the excel table to wiki table tool I found, while useful, tried directly applying the HTML tags to the copied content, meaning I had to take them out of the excel table, and still put them in at the wiki table edit level. That's more an inconvenience than anything, though. I think this format is a general improvement.
Drebin 679 (talk) 02:53, 27 September 2019 (CDT)
Hi Drebin. The tables for the loki look ok to me. I also saw what cassiel tried in his sandbox. I can see what he's going for but it seems a bit too complicated. Maybe a full overview table for the T3C site would be interesting?
Regarding the excel to wiki table tools: It has been a while that I used such tools and I had a look again and can see what you are talking about. You probably used https://tools.wmflabs.org/excel2wiki/index.php where I ran into the same problems like you. Better converters use plugins. I could not find a google spreadsheets plugin although it seems that one existed (see https://wikitableworks.com/wtw/help website looks terrible and google doesn't have the add on available anymore). I also thought that open office/libre office had some form of plugin but could not find it anymore (could also be that I confused that with a converter into latex tables). Anyways the best thing for straight up conversion I could find was on https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Technik/Text/Basic/EXCEL-Tabellenumwandlung/en I didn't try it but I'm confident that it would work fine at least until microsoft excel 2013 what they write they tested. Anyways, the following editor might be more helpful in the end though: https://www.tablesgenerator.com/mediawiki_tables It's a what you see is what you get editor which then transforms into wiki code.
Erwin madelung (talk) 08:22, 27 September 2019 (CDT)

Hi! Thanks for adding the resists for the EDENCOM ships on the Natural Resistances page :)

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