User talk:Drebin 679/Sandbox 2

• Set navbox state to collapsed (doesn't seem to work at the moment...)

• Noted. Feel free to investigate. Arin Mara (talk) 18:09, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

• Indented the nested navbox source, added child tags on them

• child parameter isn't documented. Feel free to document it. Arin Mara (talk) 18:09, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

• Removed Wartime Operations, as AFAIK that is not dictated by the FC team

• Sure but now it is missing completely. The purpose of the Navbox is to leave no Category:EVE_University page behind. Propose where in the Navbox it should be or if it should be removed from the Category altogether. Arin Mara (talk) 18:09, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

• If that specifically is a goal of this template, then it ought to be documented as such. The page you have linked (relevant blurb: "Use Template:Navbox to construct a navbox that [...] links to pages in Category:EVE University and Special:ProtectedPages related to EVE University as an EVE Online corporation") does not mention such a goal, and I'm not sure of the benefit. "Is it worthwhile to say its related to these other pages?" and "Is this page is so worthwhile that it's worth linking in the body of 50+ other pages?" are two different questions, and marrying them together begs the question of why we're duplicating work grouping them together. If you insist, I would rename the Policies group to "Policies & Guidance" and chuck it there. If you also insist, Category:The Explorer's Shadow (the old Uni Epic Arc) ought to be removed, and any non-main-namespace page in that category purged. Drebin 679 (talk) 22:46, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

• I've under-specified what should be included and what should be included. I've update the template documentation. Arin Mara (talk) 08:43, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
• I've attempted to explain the benefits of this Navbox in the UniWiki:Projects description of the project. Arin Mara (talk) 08:43, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
• Our fellow capsuleers appreciate interacting with categories through the Navbox interface. Linking pages in a Category and in the Navbox looks like duplicate work, but in the future, it is my aspiration, links will be pulled from the Category dynamically. Arin Mara (talk) 08:43, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
• Avoid the use of word "and" or "&" in Navbox groups. If you are gravitating towards using it, create two separate groups instead. Instead of "Policies & Guidance" let's have a group "Policies" and a group "Guidance". Or put Wartime Operations and Leaving EVE University in the "below=" part because they are not claimed by any Department or Directorate. Whichever decision you make, make sure you also update their categories. Arin Mara (talk) 08:43, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
• In the 2h conversation with CEO (Jilo) he did express an interest in nuking and purging the Category:EVE_University and to make the Wiki more lean by heavy use of deletion rather than archival and preservation. However, let's wait for until EVE 2.0 until we (reluctantly) acquiesce and do the bidding of the CEO. Arin Mara (talk) 08:43, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

• Cross Campus Initiative -> Community Content Initiative

• Awesome! Arin Mara (talk) 18:09, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

• Removed EVE University Calendar, List of Teachers, and Shared Can Fleet Command from Teaching Department, as the first is not Teaching specific, and the latter two are anachronistic

• If so, then these pages should be moved from the Category:Teaching Resources to a category you feel is more appropriate. These links should also not be completely left out of the Navbox unless they area also completely removed from the Category:EVE_University and it's subpages. Arin Mara (talk) 18:09, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

• Looks like a Teaching Department category is in need, as I find it hard to consider the Teaching Department page itself or the list of (old) Teachers as teaching resources. The old syllabi should just be removed from that category. Drebin 679 (talk) 22:46, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

• Have a talk with Anidien about what they think. Keep me in the loop. Arin Mara (talk) 08:43, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

• Removed Leaving EVE University from Intake & Progression, as it does not seem specific to that department

• It should then also be moved from the Category:Applying to EVE University to a category you feel is more appropriate. Don't leave it out completely. Arin Mara (talk) 18:09, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

• As with Wartime Operations, chucking it to a renamed Policies & Guidance grouping seems appropriate. Drebin 679 (talk) 22:46, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

• See my earlier commet about avoiding the use of "and" or "&". Arin Mara (talk) 08:43, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

• Removed Skillbook Program from Reimbursement Department, as said department does not administer that program (the Uni at-large and managers at-large do)

• Don't leave it out completely. Arin Mara (talk) 18:09, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

• As presently in the userspace template, it remains in the services category. There are a few links that are duplicated, and the Skillbook Program was one of them. Drebin 679 (talk) 22:46, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

• Cool! Arin Mara (talk) 08:43, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

• Removed Skillbook Program Seeded Price as now that it is no longer a subpage of Skillbook program (due to subpages at-large getting nuked), it might as well be tooled as a standalone page and not a Uni specific page.

• Sure, remove it from Category:EVE_University. Arin Mara (talk) 18:09, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

• Added EVE University Overview to the Services section. It's currently not in that category, but I guess it could be considered a service by E-UNI, as the Uni puts in work to keep its modified Z-S overview up to date.

• Yup yup, put it into the services category. Arin Mara (talk) 18:09, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

Other comments:

• Having EVE Echoes on here is odd. I guess it's there just to say "E-UNI is not in Echoes", but the rest of the page does not seem relevant to E-UNI specifically.

• It is in Category:EVE_University. Arin Mara (talk) 18:09, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

• Then it ought to be removed from that category. Plain and simply, the sorry state of that page is my fault. I told Laura (!) that I would make a page when Echoes came out, but I never did. Drebin 679 (talk) 22:46, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

• Awesome! Arin Mara (talk) 08:43, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

• Will also probably chuck the Crowbar link for the same reason.

• It is in Category:EVE_University and perhaps should be moved into the Archive. Then it would be fine to leave it out. Arin Mara (talk) 18:09, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

• It is rank hypocrisy to say we don't do fits on the wiki and then have a page specifically to a fit archetype, front and center, as part of the "core E-UNI navigation template". As I've said many times, I never agreed with that decision, so I'm fine just incinerating its category tag and calling it a day. Drebin 679 (talk) 22:46, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

• HAHAHAHAHHAHHAH When I read "rank hypocrisy" I laughed so hard my eyes began to water! EHEM! Ok, this topic has come up so many times I've made a ruling about Template:ShipFitting/doc. Talk to John and see if the FC Department (or sub-department) is willing to take on the job of updating not just Crowbar, but all the other Category:Doctrines. If no, move them to Category:Old Doctrines and later they'll all be moved to the Archive namespace. At tome point I'll just purge all the ShipFitting templates from the Archive. Regardless of FC Team's decision, feel free to remove Crowbar from Category:EVE_University and restore hypocrisy to more manageable levels. Arin Mara (talk) 08:43, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

• Should probably chuck Campuses or Communities in here somewhere...

• They were purposefully commented out in the original template until CEO/Director decide how many pages these communities and the directorate of campuses will have Arin Mara (talk) 18:09, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

I want the Navbox and the categories to be tightly linked. These links should be explained succinctly in the template documentation, just like they are now. Had a 2h talk with CEO (Jilo) and (among other things) they nothing but praise for the current state of the template. Great feedback is also coming from Uni Officers. There definitely room for improvement, but those improvements should be done simultaneously with the improvements with how we categorize and sub-categorize EVE University pages. Arin Mara (talk) 18:09, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

I agree with that assessment of the template. My concerns are that it is currently in some pages where it's larger than the rest of the page (hence the attempt to have it be collapsed by default), and that there are some pages that IMO are not overly specific to the Uni (hence my changes and contention with the apparent "contain all pages of a couple of categories" goal). Anecdotally, I also wonder how important categories are to the end user, as if I had to guess a number I'd click them in around 5% of my visits, even before I started editing. There's not a downside to having things be well categorized, of course, but I again question the benefit of having a double-girding of categories and related navboxes being treated as an essential goal.Drebin 679 (talk) 22:46, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder... well... and in their fingers too: I like the Navbox uncollapsed because then I don't have to click Unhide every time I want to navigate to another page. However, I don't object to the template being collapsed by default. If a page is not relevant to the Uni, it should be removed from the Category. Well groomed Categories are the basis for dynamically generated pages and Wiki automation. This Navbox is a stepping stone towards the goal of automating list creation, CSV file creation, auto-synchronized Category-Navbox, to effortlessly keeping our Wiki up-to-date, lean, mean and relevant. Arin Mara (talk) 08:43, 23 May 2022 (UTC)