Difference between revisions of "User:Olly Wakwako/sandbox/Incursion Upgrades and Progression"
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* Following buying and fitting a Marauder, you should finish by completing your implant set following the Implants Guide. | * Following buying and fitting a Marauder, you should finish by completing your implant set following the Implants Guide. | ||
| − | + | = Ship progression = | |
Progression varies a little between the roles of [[Roles in Incursions#Logistics|logistics]] and [[Roles in Incursions#Damage dealers|damage dealers]], but is somewhat straight forward with easily identified high-end ships to aim for. | Progression varies a little between the roles of [[Roles in Incursions#Logistics|logistics]] and [[Roles in Incursions#Damage dealers|damage dealers]], but is somewhat straight forward with easily identified high-end ships to aim for. | ||
| − | + | == Logistics == | |
The Oneiros is the optimal logistics ship for Vanguard sites. There is little in terms of hull progression in this regard - the best progression opportunity is skill-based, and comes in the training of {{sk|Logistics Cruisers|V}}, which affords a significant improvement in capacitor stability as compared to Logistics Cruisers IV. | The Oneiros is the optimal logistics ship for Vanguard sites. There is little in terms of hull progression in this regard - the best progression opportunity is skill-based, and comes in the training of {{sk|Logistics Cruisers|V}}, which affords a significant improvement in capacitor stability as compared to Logistics Cruisers IV. | ||
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|} | |} | ||
| − | + | == Pirate faction battleships == | |
The '''Machariel''', '''Nightmare''', and '''Vindicator''' are the preferred ''intermediate hulls''for incursions due to a combination of higher base stats, better bonuses and better slot layouts as compared to T1 battleships and the Praxis. | The '''Machariel''', '''Nightmare''', and '''Vindicator''' are the preferred ''intermediate hulls''for incursions due to a combination of higher base stats, better bonuses and better slot layouts as compared to T1 battleships and the Praxis. | ||
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| − | + | == Marauders == | |
==== Paladin ==== | ==== Paladin ==== | ||
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==== Kronos ==== | ==== Kronos ==== | ||
| − | + | = Fit Progression = | |
For the most part, fit progression is really only relevant for high-end ships like the three pirate faction battleships mentioned above. Logistics ships use pretty much the same rigs, changing only a few modules based on their desired fit. Remember that upgrading from a regular battleship to a pirate faction battleship alone is a big upgrade and the best use of your ISK for the initial upgrade. | For the most part, fit progression is really only relevant for high-end ships like the three pirate faction battleships mentioned above. Logistics ships use pretty much the same rigs, changing only a few modules based on their desired fit. Remember that upgrading from a regular battleship to a pirate faction battleship alone is a big upgrade and the best use of your ISK for the initial upgrade. | ||
See [[Incursion fitting principles#Upgrade priorities|upgrade priorities]] for more information and remember that your options are highly limited by your [[Incursion fitting principles#Rigging choice|choice of rigs]]. That choice also heavily influences the amount of ISK you need to front to make the fit work. The examples below will use the more common setups, so will not include specialized fits such as the '''warp speed''' variant. | See [[Incursion fitting principles#Upgrade priorities|upgrade priorities]] for more information and remember that your options are highly limited by your [[Incursion fitting principles#Rigging choice|choice of rigs]]. That choice also heavily influences the amount of ISK you need to front to make the fit work. The examples below will use the more common setups, so will not include specialized fits such as the '''warp speed''' variant. | ||
| − | + | == Cheap == | |
If you're not entirely sure how you want to fit your ship in the end, the same principle that we follow to fit our [[Incursion fitting principles#Minimum setup|minimum fits]] can be applied to pirate faction ships as well. Practically you can fit a '''Vindicator''' more or less the same way you'd fit a [[Vanguard Incursion fits#Hyperion|Hyperion]]. The same goes for fitting a '''Machariel''' similar to how you fit a [[Vanguard Incursion fits#Maelstrom|Maelstrom]]. | If you're not entirely sure how you want to fit your ship in the end, the same principle that we follow to fit our [[Incursion fitting principles#Minimum setup|minimum fits]] can be applied to pirate faction ships as well. Practically you can fit a '''Vindicator''' more or less the same way you'd fit a [[Vanguard Incursion fits#Hyperion|Hyperion]]. The same goes for fitting a '''Machariel''' similar to how you fit a [[Vanguard Incursion fits#Maelstrom|Maelstrom]]. | ||
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}} | }} | ||
| − | + | == Effective == | |
{{quote|... will free up an extra midslot.}} | {{quote|... will free up an extra midslot.}} | ||
If you want to keep the cost of the fit down while still having some improvements, you could go halfway with the cheapest deadspace modules. The [[Incursion fitting principles#Thermal rig|advanced EM rig setup]] from the '''fitting principles''' page will free up an extra midslot. | If you want to keep the cost of the fit down while still having some improvements, you could go halfway with the cheapest deadspace modules. The [[Incursion fitting principles#Thermal rig|advanced EM rig setup]] from the '''fitting principles''' page will free up an extra midslot. | ||
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}} | }} | ||
| − | + | == Optimal == | |
{{quote|... gives you maximum damage and will free up two extra midslots.}} | {{quote|... gives you maximum damage and will free up two extra midslots.}} | ||
If you're willing to spend a little bit more on your favourite cash-cow ship, you can take it one step further with one of the more costly deadspace hardeners. The [[Incursion fitting principles#Electromagnetic rig|advanced electromagnetic rig setup]] from the '''fitting principles''' page gives you maximum damage and will free up an extra midslot. | If you're willing to spend a little bit more on your favourite cash-cow ship, you can take it one step further with one of the more costly deadspace hardeners. The [[Incursion fitting principles#Electromagnetic rig|advanced electromagnetic rig setup]] from the '''fitting principles''' page gives you maximum damage and will free up an extra midslot. | ||
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}} | }} | ||
| − | + | = Faction and deadspace modules = | |
First of all, remember that getting a pirate faction hull is always going to give you better applied damage (and often many other advantages) compared to spending ISK on faction and deadspace modules. With the exception of the '''Federation Navy''' or '''Serpentis Stasis Webifier''' and '''tech two weapons''', it is recommended that you get a better hull long before you look into upgrading modules. | First of all, remember that getting a pirate faction hull is always going to give you better applied damage (and often many other advantages) compared to spending ISK on faction and deadspace modules. With the exception of the '''Federation Navy''' or '''Serpentis Stasis Webifier''' and '''tech two weapons''', it is recommended that you get a better hull long before you look into upgrading modules. | ||
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| − | + | = Injecting implants = | |
There are plenty of hardwiring implants that are useful for incursion runners, with effects ranging from damage projection (tracking, damage or rate of fire) to fitting/support related effects (increased capacitor, powergrid or CPU) and warp speed. The bonuses from implants do not suffer stacking penalties, thus even the +3% variants are quite potent and cheap enough to use even while at war due to the low risk of actually losing your pod. | There are plenty of hardwiring implants that are useful for incursion runners, with effects ranging from damage projection (tracking, damage or rate of fire) to fitting/support related effects (increased capacitor, powergrid or CPU) and warp speed. The bonuses from implants do not suffer stacking penalties, thus even the +3% variants are quite potent and cheap enough to use even while at war due to the low risk of actually losing your pod. | ||
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| − | + | = Skill progression = | |
For the most part skill progression is as simple as just topping off the '''minimum''' skills you needed to get ready and perhaps train a couple of new skills to be able to use a different set of drones or a situational module. There are however some differences between skill progression for logistics and damage dealers. | For the most part skill progression is as simple as just topping off the '''minimum''' skills you needed to get ready and perhaps train a couple of new skills to be able to use a different set of drones or a situational module. There are however some differences between skill progression for logistics and damage dealers. | ||
| − | + | == Logistics == | |
Progression for logistics is practically an intertwined mess of both fit and skill progression, as skills like {{sk|Logistics Cruisers|V}} and all the support skills all play a vital role. The more powerful tech two remote shield boosters require better fitting skills and utility modules require more cap, at the same time you want to use less fitting modules to free up room for even more utility modules while still keeping a good enough tank. | Progression for logistics is practically an intertwined mess of both fit and skill progression, as skills like {{sk|Logistics Cruisers|V}} and all the support skills all play a vital role. The more powerful tech two remote shield boosters require better fitting skills and utility modules require more cap, at the same time you want to use less fitting modules to free up room for even more utility modules while still keeping a good enough tank. | ||
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|} | |} | ||
| − | + | == Damage dealers == | |
Most of the progression in terms of skill for damage dealers surrounds gunnery and drones, but also to some extent capacitor management and fitting skills. Skill progression for damage dealers are completely disjointed and separate from ship progression due to the fact that you'll perform better in a pirate faction than you would in a tech one hull no matter what your skills are. So as your skills improve you'll progress the same regardless if it's in a fancy ship or your old but trustworthy tech one battleship; You simply upgrade when your skills allow you to. | Most of the progression in terms of skill for damage dealers surrounds gunnery and drones, but also to some extent capacitor management and fitting skills. Skill progression for damage dealers are completely disjointed and separate from ship progression due to the fact that you'll perform better in a pirate faction than you would in a tech one hull no matter what your skills are. So as your skills improve you'll progress the same regardless if it's in a fancy ship or your old but trustworthy tech one battleship; You simply upgrade when your skills allow you to. | ||
Revision as of 18:06, 2 February 2024
|
| Incursion links |
|---|
| General |
| Advanced |
| EVE University |
| Preparations |
| Fittings |
| Guides |
Overview
There are a lot of ways to spend ISK on your incursion character in order to improve your performance, be that buying a pirate faction battleship, getting faction and deadspace modules or injecting implants into your head. Some of these options are more effective than others, so before you start "throwing ISK at the problem" with wild abandon ... take a moment to consider your options.
In general we suggest making upgrades following this rough order, designed to prioritize upgrades which reuiqre less time and isk investment and which provide the largest benefit:
- We suggest that unistas use the loaner battleships provided by the Incursions Community until you can afford to buy a Pirate Faction Battleship. At that point, you should buy yourself the full starter fit for your preferred hull.
- You should at this point train towards the appropriate Tier II weapon system for the hull you have chosen.
- Following this, as you gain isk, you should replace modules, slowly upgrading from Tier II to faction or deadspace.
- You could also consider at this point training Cypernetics V and buying a WS-618 warp speed implant.
- Once you have fully upgraded your Pirate Battleship, you should consider training into the Marauder which shares a weapon system with your current ship (Vargur from Macheriel, Kronos from Vindicator, Paladin from Nightmare).
- Following buying and fitting a Marauder, you should finish by completing your implant set following the Implants Guide.
Ship progression
Progression varies a little between the roles of logistics and damage dealers, but is somewhat straight forward with easily identified high-end ships to aim for.
Logistics
The Oneiros is the optimal logistics ship for Vanguard sites. There is little in terms of hull progression in this regard - the best progression opportunity is skill-based, and comes in the training of Logistics Cruisers V, which affords a significant improvement in capacitor stability as compared to Logistics Cruisers IV.
Despite this, there are other ships that are more than capable of providing the logistics we require in our fleets. Of these, the most notable is the Nestor, which is commonly seen in Headquarters sites owing to its overwhelming remote repair power. The Nestor is significantly more expensive compared to the Oneiros, and the benefits it provides to those running Headquarters sites are not so relevant in Vanguard sites.
Oneiros
   |
The Oneiros
|
4 (0/2) 
4 
5
1,050 MW 
370 tf
230 m/sec
600 m³
Nestor
  |
The Nestor
|
The Nestor is bonused for drone hitpoints and damage.
Pirate faction battleships
The Machariel, Nightmare, and Vindicator are the preferred intermediate hullsfor incursions due to a combination of higher base stats, better bonuses and better slot layouts as compared to T1 battleships and the Praxis.
Some of these have a natural progression, like the Maelstrom pilot only needing Gallente Battleship to move into a Machariel and a Hyperion pilot only needing to train Minmatar Battleship to get into the Vindicator. Left a bit on the side is the Rokh with a low priority synergy with the Nightmare given the Caldari Battleship skill and a slightly stronger synergy with the Vindicator given that they both use the Large Hybrid Turret skill for their guns.
Training up a racial battleship skill from scratch to III takes less than four days and training a new racial turret skill to III is about a day and a half, so even if some of these ships have natural progression; don't feel like you're a slave to your initial choice of ship or weaponry.
Nightmare
   |
The Nightmare
|
Machariel
  |
The Machariel
|
Vindicator
  |
The Vindicator
|
- ^ a b c d Gallente Battleship and Minmatar Battleship are shared between both the Machariel and the Vindicator, so if you like flying multiple hulls you'd have the ship skills covered and you'd only need to train a new racial turret skill.
In almost all cases, upgrading your hull should be your first goal if you're looking to invest more ISK. Generally speaking for hisec, while faction and deadspace modules are great, pirate faction hulls often give superior bonuses without inflating the value of droppable modules fit to your ship. In the case of Incursions specifically, the matter comes down to the pirate faction battleships having two damage bonuses and powerful role bonuses (instead of having an offensive and a defensive bonus), plus much better overall ship stats such as align time.
Below is a list of some of the differences (relevant to incursions) for a Vindicator compared to a Hyperion, a Machariel compared to a Maelstrom, and a Nightmare compared to a Praxis.
| Improvements | Hyperion » Vindicator | Maelstrom » Machariel | Praxis » Nightmare |
|---|---|---|---|
 Effective turrets [1]
|
+22,2% more damage | +9,4% more damage | +33,3% more damage |
 Tracking speed
|
+37,5% more tracking | Similar | +37,5% more tracking |
 Turret falloff
|
Similar | +50% more falloff | Similar |
 Capacitor recharge [2]
|
+14,3% capacitor recharge | +4,7% capacitor recharge | +17,8% capacitor recharge |
 Shield hit points
|
+16,7% more shield hp | +16,5% more shield hp | +62,3% more shield hp |
 Signature
|
17,5% smaller signature | 23,9% smaller signature | 20,4% smaller signature |
| Targeting range
|
20,8% longer lock range | Similar | 37,1% longer lock range |
 Drone capacity
|
-50 m3 drone bay | +25 m3 drone bay | -150 m3 drone bay |
 Scan resolution
|
-9,1% scan resolution | +38,9% scan resolution | -15,2% scan resolution |
 Warp speed
|
Same | +1 AU/s warp speed | Same |
 Inertia
|
+29,7% more agile | +29,4% more agile | -18,0% less agile |
 Velocity[3]
|
+14,7% faster | +71,3% faster | +52,0% faster |
- ^ Effective turrets is a measure of raw turrets modified by rate of fire or damage bonuses of the hulls as well as role bonuses.
- ^ Peak recharge is a measure of capacitor capacity / capacitor recharge time * 2,5 (peak coefficient). See capacitor recharge rate for more information.
- ^ A ship's velocity is unimportant in Vanguards, but valued in Assaults and Headquarters, which involve moving with microwarpdrives to anchor positions.
Marauders
Paladin
Vargur
Kronos
Fit Progression
For the most part, fit progression is really only relevant for high-end ships like the three pirate faction battleships mentioned above. Logistics ships use pretty much the same rigs, changing only a few modules based on their desired fit. Remember that upgrading from a regular battleship to a pirate faction battleship alone is a big upgrade and the best use of your ISK for the initial upgrade.
See upgrade priorities for more information and remember that your options are highly limited by your choice of rigs. That choice also heavily influences the amount of ISK you need to front to make the fit work. The examples below will use the more common setups, so will not include specialized fits such as the warp speed variant.
Cheap
If you're not entirely sure how you want to fit your ship in the end, the same principle that we follow to fit our minimum fits can be applied to pirate faction ships as well. Practically you can fit a Vindicator more or less the same way you'd fit a Hyperion. The same goes for fitting a Machariel similar to how you fit a Maelstrom.
Here's an example of a Nightmare fit according to our principles, with only a minor change to rigs since their increased stats make shield extender rigs superfluous.
Multispectrum Shield Hardener II
Multispectrum Shield Hardener II
EM Shield Hardener II
Damage Control II
Large Thermal Shield Reinforcer I
Large Energy Burst Aerator II
- The Nightmare is often the only decent entry-ship for Amarr pilots.
- Even using the standard setup the ship sports plenty of midslots allowing for a high number of utility modules, four to be exact.
Effective
| “ |
... will free up an extra midslot. |
” |
If you want to keep the cost of the fit down while still having some improvements, you could go halfway with the cheapest deadspace modules. The advanced EM rig setup from the fitting principles page will free up an extra midslot.
 Note:
|
This fit changes the rig to a  Large EM Shield Reinforcer I and will not work with other resist rigs.
|
Pithum C-Type Multispectrum Shield Hardener
Multispectrum Shield Hardener II
Damage Control II
Large EM Shield Reinforcer I
Large Projectile Burst Aerator II
- With a cheap setup you'd use up 3 midslots for tank, this only uses two, giving you one extra midslot for utility modules.
- Increasing the tank for this fit is a bit limited, but you can either add a normal Multispectrum Shield Hardener II module for assaults, or if you want to solidify your tank for headquarters, two Pithum B-Type Multispectrum Shield Hardeners.
Optimal
| “ |
... gives you maximum damage and will free up two extra midslots. |
” |
If you're willing to spend a little bit more on your favourite cash-cow ship, you can take it one step further with one of the more costly deadspace hardeners. The advanced electromagnetic rig setup from the fitting principles page gives you maximum damage and will free up an extra midslot.
Here's an example of a Vindicator fit according to that principle.
| Note:
|
This fit changes the rig to a Large EM Shield Reinforcer I and will not work with other resist rigs.
|
Pithum B-Type Multispectrum Shield Hardener
Damage Control II
Large EM Shield Reinforcer I
Large Hybrid Burst Aerator II
- With a cheap setup you'd use up 3 midslots for tank, leaving only 2 midslots for utility modules. But since you're only using 1 midslot you now have room for two additional midslots.
- Increasing the tank for this fit can be as cheap as adding a normal Multispectrum Shield Hardener II module for assaults, or if you want to solidify your tank for headquarters, a second Pithum B-Type or Pithum A-Type Multispectrum Shield Hardener.
Faction and deadspace modules
First of all, remember that getting a pirate faction hull is always going to give you better applied damage (and often many other advantages) compared to spending ISK on faction and deadspace modules. With the exception of the Federation Navy or Serpentis Stasis Webifier and tech two weapons, it is recommended that you get a better hull long before you look into upgrading modules.
Consider the actual benefit you will get from upgrading a certain module. Getting a deadspace hardener is useful for most ships as it frees up a midslot. But even though a faction tracking computer or a sensor booster might make sense for public fleets built to compete, for our community that isn't going to be as worthwhile of an investment as we usually don't compete.
What do you get in return?
To put this into perspective you need to factor in stacking penalties. If you're just using one module to a given effect, it's easy to calculate and see the difference, but when you have more intricate combinations where things end up 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th in the stacking hierarchy, it might be a little harder to see what you get out of it.
Module variants and price deviations
|
When you're shopping for faction or deadspace modules, check all equivalent variants for price deviations. For example, the Federation Navy Tracking Computer is identical in all but the name to the Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer and their prices fluctuate over time, so use the Show Info and Compare-feature ingame to find potential alternatives and you might save millions. |
Injecting implants
There are plenty of hardwiring implants that are useful for incursion runners, with effects ranging from damage projection (tracking, damage or rate of fire) to fitting/support related effects (increased capacitor, powergrid or CPU) and warp speed. The bonuses from implants do not suffer stacking penalties, thus even the +3% variants are quite potent and cheap enough to use even while at war due to the low risk of actually losing your pod.
The best hardwiring implants (apart from officer implants) come from the CONCORD Loyalty Point store and give a +6% bonus but require Cybernetics V. Implants are available for all skills and wallets however, ranging from the 1%, 3% and 5% implants of normal LP stores to the CONCORD specific 2%, 4% and 6% implants.
As with all things, do your research and see if it's cheaper to simply buy it off of the market instead of getting it yourself from the LP store. See hardwiring implants for a full list of available implants.
See the Incursion Community Implant Guide for more information about recommended implants. This guide will cover the two types of implants that we suggest: Skill Hardwiring (slots 6-10) and Attribute Enhancing (slots 1-5). These implants are not required to fly in our community, but they do greatly improve ship performance. In order to use any of the implants listed in this guide, you will need to have the Cybernetics skill trained to at least level V. This will allow you to use 6% implants, which can be purchased with Concord Loyalty Points (LP) earned by running Incursions. These implants can be found at Concord Stations and cost 250 million ISK and 250,000 LP.
Skill progression
For the most part skill progression is as simple as just topping off the minimum skills you needed to get ready and perhaps train a couple of new skills to be able to use a different set of drones or a situational module. There are however some differences between skill progression for logistics and damage dealers.
Logistics
Progression for logistics is practically an intertwined mess of both fit and skill progression, as skills like Logistics Cruisers V and all the support skills all play a vital role. The more powerful tech two remote shield boosters require better fitting skills and utility modules require more cap, at the same time you want to use less fitting modules to free up room for even more utility modules while still keeping a good enough tank.
See minimum and recommended skills for a list of specific skills to train early on to quickly move into the recommended and advanced logistics fits.
|
Implants
It's possible to change the priority or shorten the train early on by using implants to improve your capacitor regeneration or fitting room. This is because logistics have relatively small capacitor capacity and even small changes can often make or break a fit. See recommended implants for more information. |
Damage dealers
Most of the progression in terms of skill for damage dealers surrounds gunnery and drones, but also to some extent capacitor management and fitting skills. Skill progression for damage dealers are completely disjointed and separate from ship progression due to the fact that you'll perform better in a pirate faction than you would in a tech one hull no matter what your skills are. So as your skills improve you'll progress the same regardless if it's in a fancy ship or your old but trustworthy tech one battleship; You simply upgrade when your skills allow you to.
See minimum and recommended skills for a list of specific skills to train early on.
|
Tech two weapons
As soon as you have the skills for it, toss away those old meta turrets and replace them with your tech two turrets of choice. All ships, tech one battleships as well as pirate faction battleships benefit greatly from the much more powerful tech two turrets (and their advanced ammunition). |
|
Improved drone skills
There are several drone-related skills to help improve your performance. First improving drone control range, then general drone support and specialization skills. Later on you might train heavy drones for headquarter sites or sentry drones for vanguard sites. |
|
Capacitor management
Some skills improve basic capacitor regeneration, others reduce capacitor usage instead. Some ships will have little to no issues with cap, while others are much more subject to it and require very high skills. Implants play a small role in this as well, so your mileage will vary here depending on your skills, ship, fit and implants. |
|
Fitting skills
Long range weapons and propulsion modules in particular put a lot of strain on your power grid while tech two weapons and damage upgrades require a lot of CPU. This is not an issue early on, but as you move into assaults and headquarters, you might need to train skills that reduce the power grid and CPU requirements as well as improving the base output of your ship. |
Planning ahead
Unless you are already heavily invested into a certain race or weapon system, it might be a good idea to think of which logistics ship, strategic cruiser or pirate faction battleship you'll want in the end, rather than what your first incursion ship should be. Don't worry too much about it though, as the race specific ship and weapon skills you train for the minimum skills only amount to a little over five days worth of training. So changing your mind along the way wouldn't be much of a detour.
Depending on the race, training for strategic cruisers will make quite some progress towards being able to fly logistics as well, or the other way around if your goal is to fly logistics. That said, most strategic cruisers pale in comparison to the pirate faction battleships who remain the epitome of incursion boats.
You should also consider secondary value of whatever you train, perhaps you can find an end-of-the-line ship that not only furthers your goals for incursions but other goals as well given the skills you'll end up training for it. If you already know that you like smaller ships, or have plans for diving into a wormhole in the future, it would make much more sense training into a strategic cruiser than a pirate faction battleship.
So take some time to consider which racial ship line, what racial weapons would benefit you doing missions, exploration, PvP or whatever else you'd like to do in EVE.
