Difference between revisions of "Ship progression in Incursions"
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The starter ships are pretty skill intensive, requiring you to have at least a couple of months worth training to get the [[Preparing_for_Incursions#Recommended_skills|recommended skills]] to effectively fly them. | The starter ships are pretty skill intensive, requiring you to have at least a couple of months worth training to get the [[Preparing_for_Incursions#Recommended_skills|recommended skills]] to effectively fly them. | ||
== Recommended battleships == | == Recommended battleships == | ||
+ | See [[Preparing_for_Incursions#Damage_dealers|recommended damage dealer skills]] for more information about the skills needed as well as the [[Vanguard_Incursion_fits#Battleships|vanguard]] and [[Assault_Incursion_fits#Battleships|assault fitting]] pages for the actual fits. | ||
+ | |||
+ | These ships are also perfect to use as low ISK-risk ships during war. While we always use pickets and take precautions, there's absolutely no shame in simply not wanting to risk it during wartime. With pickets and other precautions you can be reasonably safe, but here's always a risk and if you're not comfortable with that or lack the necessary titles to fly the more fancy ships, just replace the meta guns with tech two guns on your trusty old tech one battleship and fly that, leaving your expensive toys docked safely in the station. | ||
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== Logistics == | == Logistics == | ||
+ | See [[Preparing_for_Incursions#Logistics|recommended logistics skills]] for more information about the skills needed as well as the [[Vanguard_Incursion_fits#Logistics|vanguard]] and [[Assault_Incursion_fits#Logistics|assault fitting]] pages for the actual fits. | ||
+ | |||
+ | While it may seem unfair to bundle logistics with tech one battleships in the starter section, the fact remains that these are the starter fits for the logistics role. It's a much more skill intensive role and there's no real progression in terms of new hulls to fly as a logistics pilot, instead improvement is based on better skills and more fitting options. | ||
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| nowrap style="padding:0px;" | [[image:Basilisk.jpg|64px]] | | nowrap style="padding:0px;" | [[image:Basilisk.jpg|64px]] | ||
| The [[Basilisk]] is another logistics ship, but unlike the Scimitar, it needs someone to exchange energy transfers with to be effective. With good skills it can provide energy transfers to the fleet or field one more shield transporter for extra repping power. | | The [[Basilisk]] is another logistics ship, but unlike the Scimitar, it needs someone to exchange energy transfers with to be effective. With good skills it can provide energy transfers to the fleet or field one more shield transporter for extra repping power. | ||
+ | |} | ||
+ | == Fleet & Navy Issue Battleships == | ||
+ | Optionally, these fleet and Navy Issue ships can sometimes be an alternative starter ship for incursions, albeit a costly one. They have stronger base values than their tech one counterparts which often make them slightly more efficient for incursions, or opens up for a new racial ship line to be useful, like in the case for Amarr navy ships. | ||
+ | |||
+ | One thing to keep in mind however, is the price of these ships. The navy battleships are nowhere near as good as the pirate faction battleships and you might be better off skipping this ship in favour of saving up for the pirate one. But if you have one or intend to re-sell it later, it could be a nice stepping stone between tech one battleships and the pirate faction battleships. | ||
+ | {| class="wikitable" style="text-align:left; font-size:90%; border-collapse:collapse; border:1px solid #333333; padding:5px;" | ||
+ | |- | ||
+ | ! style="background:#222222;" | Races | ||
+ | ! style="background:#222222;" | Ship | ||
+ | ! style="background:#222222;" | Description | ||
+ | |- valign="top" | ||
+ | | nowrap style="padding:0px;" | [[image:logo_faction_minmatar_republic.png|64px]][[image:logo_republic_fleet.png|64px]] | ||
+ | | style="padding:0px;" | [[image:Tempest_Fleet_Issue.jpg|64px]] | ||
+ | | The [[Tempest Fleet Issue]] might not seem good at first glance compared to the [[Maelstrom]], but despite slightly lower paper dps, it has better range projection and tracking as well as utility highslots. | ||
+ | |- valign="top" | ||
+ | | nowrap style="padding:0px; text-align:center;" | [[image:logo_faction_amarr_empire.png|64px]][[image:logo_imperial_navy.png|64px]] | ||
+ | | nowrap style="padding:0px;" | [[image:Apocalypse Navy Issue.jpg|64px]] | ||
+ | | The stronger base stats allows for the [[Apocalypse Navy Issue]] to move some of the midslots to the rigs in order to get the requirement utility midslots for incursions. Has more tracking issues than capacitor issues. | ||
+ | |- valign="top" | ||
+ | | nowrap style="padding:0px; text-align:center;" | [[image:logo_faction_amarr_empire.png|64px]][[image:logo_imperial_navy.png|64px]] | ||
+ | | nowrap style="padding:0px;" | [[image:Armageddon Navy Issue.jpg|64px]] | ||
+ | | The stronger base stats allows for the [[Armageddon Navy Issue]] to move some of the midslots to the rigs in order to get the requirement utility midslots for incursions. Still has capacitor issues. | ||
+ | |- valign="top" | ||
+ | | nowrap style="padding:0px;" | [[image:logo_faction_gallente_federation.png|64px]][[image:logo_federation_navy.png|64px]] | ||
+ | | nowrap style="padding:0px;" | [[image:Megathron Navy Issue.jpg|64px]] | ||
+ | | The [[Megathron Navy Issue]] performs similar to the [[Hyperion]], except with much better tracking and slightly more raw damage as well. Overall better applied dps. | ||
|} | |} | ||
= Moving on to high-end ships = | = Moving on to high-end ships = | ||
+ | Once your skills improve and your wallet fills up, you might want to consider upgrading to a better hull for incursions. When to take this step, or even if, is highly personal and depends on a lot of things; if you play a lot or just a little, if incursions is your main ISK-making activity, how many suitable skills your character has, how easy the ship is to move to name a few. | ||
+ | |||
+ | Some go for one of the [[Preparing_for_Incursions#Advanced hulls|advanced hulls]] right away to capitalize on the fact that regardless of your skills, some of these ships are simply that much better due to their innate hull statistics and bonuses. Others start picking off skills from the [[Preparing_for_Incursions#Honing_your_skills|honing your skills]] list before moving on up, finding skills that benefit them in whatever else they do in EVE. | ||
+ | |||
+ | Either way, the [[Preparing_for_Incursions#Further_training|further training]] section on the wiki has some good guidelines as to what to train in preparation. | ||
+ | |||
== Command Ships == | == Command Ships == | ||
Very few Command Ships have the range and utility needed to make them good for incursions in general, suffering the same problems as most ships with medium weaponry. But for the most part they can be fitted quite nicely for [[Incursion sites#Vanguard sites|vanguards]] and in some cases even for [[Incursion sites#Assault sites|assaults]]. | Very few Command Ships have the range and utility needed to make them good for incursions in general, suffering the same problems as most ships with medium weaponry. But for the most part they can be fitted quite nicely for [[Incursion sites#Vanguard sites|vanguards]] and in some cases even for [[Incursion sites#Assault sites|assaults]]. | ||
While better than standard battleships for vanguards, they are nowhere near as good as pirate faction battleships and usually suffer in terms of utility slots and small drone bays. That said, they could serve as a nice option for people who either have no interest in battleships or for those who already trained and flies Command Ships for other purposes, outside incursions. Just remember that while we'll gladly take Command Ships in our fleets, public communities may be a bit more restrictive. | While better than standard battleships for vanguards, they are nowhere near as good as pirate faction battleships and usually suffer in terms of utility slots and small drone bays. That said, they could serve as a nice option for people who either have no interest in battleships or for those who already trained and flies Command Ships for other purposes, outside incursions. Just remember that while we'll gladly take Command Ships in our fleets, public communities may be a bit more restrictive. | ||
+ | |||
+ | Since the hull bonuses for these ships are so strong, so much efficiency tied up into the two ship skills, it's recommended that you have at least Command Ships IV trained (preferably V) if you plan on flying these. Low skilled pilots perform very poorly in these ships. | ||
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| The [[Sleipnir]] stands out with exceptional tracking, range and good damage capabilities for vanguards, although it is a bit lacking in range and cannot really perform well in assaults. | | The [[Sleipnir]] stands out with exceptional tracking, range and good damage capabilities for vanguards, although it is a bit lacking in range and cannot really perform well in assaults. | ||
|} | |} | ||
+ | |||
+ | == Strategic cruisers == | ||
+ | {| style="background:#350000; border:1px solid #333333; padding:5px;" | ||
+ | | style="padding-right:5px;" | [[image:medal_graduate.png|45px]] | ||
+ | | ''Unistas are recommended to have the [[EVE_University_Medals#EVE_University_Graduate|Graduate medal]] in order to fly the more advanced '''strategic cruisers''', as well as using costly '''faction''' and '''deadspace''' modules.'' | ||
− | + | ''This in the hope that they understand the risks associated with flying expensive ships or fits, what precautions should be taken and the [[Student_Guidance_Department#I_screwed_up_with_the_WSOP._What_can_I_expect.3F|consequences of losing them]] to a war target.'' | |
+ | |} | ||
Being cruiser hulls some strategic cruisers suffer from the same ailments as other ships with medium weaponry, but can often compensate by using long range weapons since the loss of pure tracking is often offset by the lower signature of medium weapons. They are also perfect for the [[Nation Consolidation Network]] assault sites, where the fleet splits up and parts of the fleet go through a gate only allowing cruiser-sized hulls. | Being cruiser hulls some strategic cruisers suffer from the same ailments as other ships with medium weaponry, but can often compensate by using long range weapons since the loss of pure tracking is often offset by the lower signature of medium weapons. They are also perfect for the [[Nation Consolidation Network]] assault sites, where the fleet splits up and parts of the fleet go through a gate only allowing cruiser-sized hulls. | ||
While strategic cruisers cannot match the prowess of the pirate faction battleships, they perform above that of regular battleships. So if you like smaller, agile ships, strategic cruisers might be the answer you're looking for. Keep in mind that most public communities settle for one or two strategic cruisers, mostly a [[Loki]] for the long webs. As such it's less of an appealing option to fly strategic cruisers outside our community. | While strategic cruisers cannot match the prowess of the pirate faction battleships, they perform above that of regular battleships. So if you like smaller, agile ships, strategic cruisers might be the answer you're looking for. Keep in mind that most public communities settle for one or two strategic cruisers, mostly a [[Loki]] for the long webs. As such it's less of an appealing option to fly strategic cruisers outside our community. | ||
+ | |||
+ | Since the subsystem bonuses for these ships are directly tied into their efectiveness, it's recommended that you have them all at IV and the offensive subsystem skill at V as well as tech two weapons if you plan on flying these. Low skilled pilots perform very poorly in these ships. | ||
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== Pirate faction battleships == | == Pirate faction battleships == | ||
+ | {| style="background:#350000; border:1px solid #333333; padding:5px;" | ||
+ | | style="padding-right:5px;" | [[image:medal_graduate.png|45px]] | ||
+ | | ''Unistas are recommended to have the [[EVE_University_Medals#EVE_University_Graduate|Graduate medal]] in order to fly the more advanced '''pirate faction battleships''', as well as using costly '''faction''' and '''deadspace''' modules.'' | ||
+ | |||
+ | ''This in the hope that they understand the risks associated with flying expensive ships or fits, what precautions should be taken and the [[Student_Guidance_Department#I_screwed_up_with_the_WSOP._What_can_I_expect.3F|consequences of losing them]] to a war target.'' | ||
+ | |} | ||
These ships are good ships all around, regardless of which type of site you do. Their slot layout is good, plenty of midslots, their ship bonuses are often purely offensive, making them ideal for incursions where tanking bonuses are highly overrated. | These ships are good ships all around, regardless of which type of site you do. Their slot layout is good, plenty of midslots, their ship bonuses are often purely offensive, making them ideal for incursions where tanking bonuses are highly overrated. | ||
+ | |||
+ | Remember that while these ships benefit from having really good skills, the hulls themselves are just that much better and as such a considerable upgrade regardless of your skills as a pilot. So while there are many reasons why one shouldn't fly these costly pirate battleships for incursions, lack of skillpoints is rarely one of them. If you have decent enough skills to run incursions, you'll simply be that more effective flying one of these. | ||
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|- | |- |
Revision as of 15:43, 16 November 2013
Incursion links |
---|
General |
Advanced |
EVE University |
Preparations |
Fittings |
Guides |
Planning ahead
Unless you are already heavily invested into a certain race or weapon system, it might be a good idea to think of which logistics ship, strategic cruiser or pirate faction battleship you'll want in the end, rather than what your first incursion ship should be.
Depending on the race, training for strategic cruisers will make quite some progress towards being able to fly logistics as well, or the other way around if your goal is to fly logistcs. That said, most strategic cruisers pale in comparison to the pirate faction battleships who remain the epitome of incursion boats.
Synnergy
You should also consider secondary value of whatever you train, perhaps you can find an end-of-the-line ship that not only furthers your goals for incursions but other goals as well given the skills you'll end up training for it. If you already know that you like smaller ships, or have plans for diving into a wormhole in the future, it would make much more sense training into a strategic cruiser than a pirate faction battleship.
So take some time to consider which racial ship line, what racial weapons would benefit you doing missions, exploration, PvP or whatever else you'd like to do in EVE.
Starter ships
The starter ships are pretty skill intensive, requiring you to have at least a couple of months worth training to get the recommended skills to effectively fly them.
Recommended battleships
See recommended damage dealer skills for more information about the skills needed as well as the vanguard and assault fitting pages for the actual fits.
These ships are also perfect to use as low ISK-risk ships during war. While we always use pickets and take precautions, there's absolutely no shame in simply not wanting to risk it during wartime. With pickets and other precautions you can be reasonably safe, but here's always a risk and if you're not comfortable with that or lack the necessary titles to fly the more fancy ships, just replace the meta guns with tech two guns on your trusty old tech one battleship and fly that, leaving your expensive toys docked safely in the station.
Races | Ship | Description |
---|---|---|
The Maelstrom can easily lead into the Machariel, retaining the projectile skills and Minmatar skills, but requires Gallente battleship. Minmatar in general also offers the Loki and Sleipnir as well as the Scimitar for logistics. | ||
The Rokh can train into a Vindicator, retaining the hybrid skills, but forced to train both Gallente and Minmatar battleships. It can also train into the Nightmare, retaining the Caldari battleship skills, but forced to crosstrain into lasers. Caldari also offers the Basilisk for logistics. | ||
The Hyperion can easily lead into the Vindicator, retaining the hybrid skills and Gallente skills, but it would require you to also train Minmatar battleship. |
Logistics
See recommended logistics skills for more information about the skills needed as well as the vanguard and assault fitting pages for the actual fits.
While it may seem unfair to bundle logistics with tech one battleships in the starter section, the fact remains that these are the starter fits for the logistics role. It's a much more skill intensive role and there's no real progression in terms of new hulls to fly as a logistics pilot, instead improvement is based on better skills and more fitting options.
Races | Ship | Description |
---|---|---|
The Scimitar is a logistics ship, the core of fleet defense. It does not rely on energy transfers to be cap stable and can therefor be fully operational on its own. The bonus to tracking links makes it an enormous asset on the field, on top of the repairs it supplies. | ||
The Basilisk is another logistics ship, but unlike the Scimitar, it needs someone to exchange energy transfers with to be effective. With good skills it can provide energy transfers to the fleet or field one more shield transporter for extra repping power. |
Optionally, these fleet and Navy Issue ships can sometimes be an alternative starter ship for incursions, albeit a costly one. They have stronger base values than their tech one counterparts which often make them slightly more efficient for incursions, or opens up for a new racial ship line to be useful, like in the case for Amarr navy ships.
One thing to keep in mind however, is the price of these ships. The navy battleships are nowhere near as good as the pirate faction battleships and you might be better off skipping this ship in favour of saving up for the pirate one. But if you have one or intend to re-sell it later, it could be a nice stepping stone between tech one battleships and the pirate faction battleships.
Races | Ship | Description |
---|---|---|
The Tempest Fleet Issue might not seem good at first glance compared to the Maelstrom, but despite slightly lower paper dps, it has better range projection and tracking as well as utility highslots. | ||
The stronger base stats allows for the Apocalypse Navy Issue to move some of the midslots to the rigs in order to get the requirement utility midslots for incursions. Has more tracking issues than capacitor issues. | ||
The stronger base stats allows for the Armageddon Navy Issue to move some of the midslots to the rigs in order to get the requirement utility midslots for incursions. Still has capacitor issues. | ||
The Megathron Navy Issue performs similar to the Hyperion, except with much better tracking and slightly more raw damage as well. Overall better applied dps. |
Moving on to high-end ships
Once your skills improve and your wallet fills up, you might want to consider upgrading to a better hull for incursions. When to take this step, or even if, is highly personal and depends on a lot of things; if you play a lot or just a little, if incursions is your main ISK-making activity, how many suitable skills your character has, how easy the ship is to move to name a few.
Some go for one of the advanced hulls right away to capitalize on the fact that regardless of your skills, some of these ships are simply that much better due to their innate hull statistics and bonuses. Others start picking off skills from the honing your skills list before moving on up, finding skills that benefit them in whatever else they do in EVE.
Either way, the further training section on the wiki has some good guidelines as to what to train in preparation.
Command Ships
Very few Command Ships have the range and utility needed to make them good for incursions in general, suffering the same problems as most ships with medium weaponry. But for the most part they can be fitted quite nicely for vanguards and in some cases even for assaults.
While better than standard battleships for vanguards, they are nowhere near as good as pirate faction battleships and usually suffer in terms of utility slots and small drone bays. That said, they could serve as a nice option for people who either have no interest in battleships or for those who already trained and flies Command Ships for other purposes, outside incursions. Just remember that while we'll gladly take Command Ships in our fleets, public communities may be a bit more restrictive.
Since the hull bonuses for these ships are so strong, so much efficiency tied up into the two ship skills, it's recommended that you have at least Command Ships IV trained (preferably V) if you plan on flying these. Low skilled pilots perform very poorly in these ships.
Races | Ship | Description |
---|---|---|
The Vulture is a solid ship for both vanguards and assaults, capable of performing well even as a sniper. Lots of utility midslots and good range projection with railguns. | ||
The Astarte has some amazing damage projection capabilities for vanguards, although it is severely lacking in terms of of range and tank for assaults and up, due to lack of midslots. | ||
The Sleipnir stands out with exceptional tracking, range and good damage capabilities for vanguards, although it is a bit lacking in range and cannot really perform well in assaults. |
Strategic cruisers
Unistas are recommended to have the Graduate medal in order to fly the more advanced strategic cruisers, as well as using costly faction and deadspace modules.
This in the hope that they understand the risks associated with flying expensive ships or fits, what precautions should be taken and the consequences of losing them to a war target. |
Being cruiser hulls some strategic cruisers suffer from the same ailments as other ships with medium weaponry, but can often compensate by using long range weapons since the loss of pure tracking is often offset by the lower signature of medium weapons. They are also perfect for the Nation Consolidation Network assault sites, where the fleet splits up and parts of the fleet go through a gate only allowing cruiser-sized hulls.
While strategic cruisers cannot match the prowess of the pirate faction battleships, they perform above that of regular battleships. So if you like smaller, agile ships, strategic cruisers might be the answer you're looking for. Keep in mind that most public communities settle for one or two strategic cruisers, mostly a Loki for the long webs. As such it's less of an appealing option to fly strategic cruisers outside our community.
Since the subsystem bonuses for these ships are directly tied into their efectiveness, it's recommended that you have them all at IV and the offensive subsystem skill at V as well as tech two weapons if you plan on flying these. Low skilled pilots perform very poorly in these ships.
Races | Ship | Description |
---|---|---|
The Legion combines powerful short range capabilities with instant-swapping long range capabilities due to how crystals work. Ideal ship if you prefer smaller, more agile ships to the bulkier battleships. | ||
The Loki combines multiple webs with extreme tracking which makes it very useful. It also has the option to fit for longer webs, which isn't always needed but makes a world of difference when it is. | ||
The Proteus doesn't stand out quite as much as the Legion and Loki, but it's still a solid choice for people who like small ships. Due to range issues it's forced to use railguns. | ||
The Tengu is not something you'd ever train into for the sake of doing incursions, but it can still be useful if you have good skills and it's fitted properly with railguns. While missiles could work, they are less than ideal. |
Pirate faction battleships
Unistas are recommended to have the Graduate medal in order to fly the more advanced pirate faction battleships, as well as using costly faction and deadspace modules.
This in the hope that they understand the risks associated with flying expensive ships or fits, what precautions should be taken and the consequences of losing them to a war target. |
These ships are good ships all around, regardless of which type of site you do. Their slot layout is good, plenty of midslots, their ship bonuses are often purely offensive, making them ideal for incursions where tanking bonuses are highly overrated.
Remember that while these ships benefit from having really good skills, the hulls themselves are just that much better and as such a considerable upgrade regardless of your skills as a pilot. So while there are many reasons why one shouldn't fly these costly pirate battleships for incursions, lack of skillpoints is rarely one of them. If you have decent enough skills to run incursions, you'll simply be that more effective flying one of these.
Races | Ship | Description |
---|---|---|
The Machariel combines a flexible engagement range for autocannons with a high rate of fire. Fit for long range the impressive alpha is unmatched. It also has enough midslots to fit for any occasion. | ||
The Nightmare has very good damage at any range due to fast-swapping crystals and compensates for the innate low tracking of lasers with the ship's tracking bonus. It also has plenty of utility midslots available. Has some cap issues. | ||
The Vindicator is a brawler without match, both in terms of damage and incredibly strong webs. Despite appearances, it is also a very potent sniper when fitted with railguns, and tech two ammo makes it possible to use blasters at medium range. |