Difference between revisions of "Preparing for Incursions"
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It is no secret that having alts or several accounts are extremely useful in EVE. Incursions are no different and we can make good use of alts for a wide variety of things, especially unistas during war. The training times shown below are assuming the same +3 attribute implants as mentioned at the top of this page. | It is no secret that having alts or several accounts are extremely useful in EVE. Incursions are no different and we can make good use of alts for a wide variety of things, especially unistas during war. The training times shown below are assuming the same +3 attribute implants as mentioned at the top of this page. | ||
== Hacker / Scout == | == Hacker / Scout == | ||
| − | Scouting can be done in pretty much any ship and doesn't require any skills at all, even shuttles. When it comes to hacking | + | Scouting can be done in pretty much any ship and doesn't require any skills at all, even shuttles. When it comes to hacking the racial exploration ships are very useful thanks to their bonuses and often very cheap to boot. There are a few skills that help, but for the most part you'll have the skills needed to hack right off the bat. |
For more information about the role, see the [[Roles in Incursions#Hacker/Scout|hacker/scout]] section on the '''Roles in Incursions''' page. | For more information about the role, see the [[Roles in Incursions#Hacker/Scout|hacker/scout]] section on the '''Roles in Incursions''' page. | ||
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== Orca == | == Orca == | ||
Revision as of 10:55, 20 July 2020
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| Incursion links |
|---|
| General |
| Advanced |
| EVE University |
| Preparations |
| Fittings |
| Guides |
|
The information presented here represents how we do things in the EVE University Incursion Community. It does not represent the best or only way to run Incursions. We make some compromises when it comes to efficiency for the sake of additional safety to create an environment where anyone can step up and learn a new role. |
Planning ahead
Unless you are already heavily invested into a certain race or weapon system, it might be a good idea to think of which logistics ship or pirate faction battleship you'll want in the end, rather than what your first incursion ship should be. You should also consider secondary value of whatever you train, perhaps you can find an end-of-the-line ship that not only furthers your goals for incursions but other goals as well given the skills you'll end up training for it.
See ship progression for more information.
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Attribute implants
The training times listed for these will assume that you utilize the +3 attribute implants (see the +3 Implants Program for unistas to get started). These implants are cheap and gives you a much needed boost to your training times. |
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Neural remaps
Normally one should be careful about remaps and not spend them needlessly. However, if you are making an alt knowing that it will only train for a month or two and not train anything else after that point, consider using all the remaps. |
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Multiple character training
PLEX can be used to activate multiple character training. If you want to use the characters at the same time, or plan on training for a long time, consider making a second account instead as characters on the same account cannot be logged in at the same time. |
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Skill injectors
Skill injectors can be used to get these skills, but it's very expensive. It can however be an option to quickly get an alt up to speed if you've got the ISK lying around and you value time more than ISK. |
Damage dealers
The majority of the skills we ask you to train are core fitting and support skills that'll help you fit and fly most ships better. Even the combat skills are mostly general gunnery or drone support skills you'd train as well if you did anything combat related in EVE.
Minimum skills for damage dealers
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This skillplan is available to all pilots, regardless of clone state. |
Getting the minimum skills for a damage dealer requires a couple of months worth of training for 
Omega clones (times should be doubled when training on an 
Alpha clone). This assumes a training plan for a turret-based battleship, done on a brand new character with no preexisting skills, and that no skill injectors are used.
The following minimum skills in the table below will allow you to fly any of the minimum battleship fits for vanguards. The skills listed in the table are also available as EVEMon skillplan files – simply download and import one of the following files which corresponds to your preferred faction's battleship:
Note that these skill plans use an older version of the training sets, which had higher skill requirements when these skillplans were created.
 Core skills
|
 Utility skills
|
 Gunnery skills
|
 Ship skills
|
 Drone skills
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|---|---|---|---|---|
| ~ 9 days | ~ 5 days and 13 hours | ~ 12 days and 12 hours | ~ 4 days and 22 hours | ~ 8 days and 4 hours |
|
Weapon Upgrades IV |
Signature Analysis III |
Gunnery V |
Spaceship Command IV |
Drones V |
| ~ 40 days and 3 hours worth of Omega state training in total (~ 2.0 million skillpoints)
| ||||
- ^ Target Painting is needed for the target painter module. Can be skipped for
Hyperion and 
Vindicator pilots (see Propulsion Jamming).
- ^ Propulsion Jamming is needed for the stasis webifier module normally fitted to the Hyperion and Vindicator. Other ships may also fit this module situationally, from time to time.
- ^ While the Uni's current fits do not benefit from EM Shield Compensation, replacing the EM Shield Hardener II on our fits with a deadspace EM Shield Amplifier, as used by shield Headquarters communities, is also accepted, and those benefit from this skill.
- ^ a b c d Having Motion Prediction, Rapid Firing, Sharpshooter and Controlled Bursts at III are all that's needed to get started, though it is recommended to train these skills to IV if you wish to invest further into Incursions.
- ^ Controlled Bursts is needed for all weapons that use capacitor.
Maelstrom and 
Machariel pilots can ignore this as projectiles don't use cap.
- ^ a b <racial> Frigate III and Small <racial> Turret III are starter skills you normally have, but are included in case you have to cross-train out of your initial race.
Recommended skills for damage dealers
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This skillplan is restricted to pilots in the Omega clone state. |
Apart from the minimum skills listed above to get going, there are a few skills that you should get as soon as possible once you start running.
- Train some additional skills to be able to fly the minimum battleship-fits for assaults and increase your drone control range.
- Optionally prepare for headquarter sites as well (strong emphasis on cap and propulsion).
- Training into tech two weapons bring much needed flexibility and range projection, even for regular tech one battleships.
- While we use mostly short range weapons, consider training into the long range specialization as well.
- Some ships can fit target painters or remote capacitor transmitters, which require a few skills to be useful.
 Assaults
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Tech two weapons
|
Utility skills
|
Drones
|
|---|---|---|---|
| ~ 19 days and 8 hours | ~ 34 days and 18 hours | ~ 2 day and 17 hours | |
|
Shield Management IV |
Motion Prediction V |
Electronic Warfare III [3] |
Light Drone Operation V[4] |
- ^ Electronic Warfare IV is a requirement for Advanced Drone Avionics.
- ^ a b Optional - Consider spending an additional 9 days and 19 hours training into the long range specialization as well
- ^ Electronic Warfare III is needed for Frequency Modulation and Long Distance Jamming.
- ^ a b Training Light Drone Operation V unlocks T2 drones, which deal slightly more damage (with levels in Amarr Drone Specialization for Acolytes) and cost several times less than faction versions.
- ^ a b - Drone Interfacing IV and Drone Sharpshooting IV are requirements for Sentry Drone Interfacing.
- ^ - While our fits do not use sentries, more efficiency-focused groups will make use of sentry drones in Vanguard sites for their additional damage output and lack of travel time.
- ^ - While heavy drones are not used in Vanguards, they see common use in Headquarters fleets. HQ groups will generally require pilots of Vindicators and Machariels to use heavy drones.
Logistics
Training for logistics is considerably more time-consuming than that of a regular damage dealer. Please remember that when you think the above mentioned skills for a damage dealer is a long train. The bare minimum to make the logistics ships work is Logistics Cruisers IV, there is practically no way to make these ships function with lower skills than that. The reason for that is because the skill heavily influences the cap usage of remote repair modules as well as capacitor transmitters.
Minimum skills for logistics
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This skillplan is restricted to pilots in the Omega clone state. |
It takes almost three months to get good enough skills to fly a minimum logistics fit and you should try to skill up and upgrade to the recommended fit as soon as possible. The repping power of meta four remote shield boosters are inferior to that of the tech two variant, so moving out of the minimum fit should be a high priority.
EVEMon skillplans: Scimitar (minimum skills), Basilisk (minimum skills)
| Core skills
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Utility skills
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 Logistics skills
|
Ship skills
|
Drone skills
|
|---|---|---|---|---|
| ~ 8 days and 18 hours | ~ 24 days and 14 hours | ~ 6 days and 9 hours | ~ 32 days and 8 hours | ~ 5 days and 14 hours |
|
Capacitor Management IV |
Signature Analysis V [3] |
Shield Emission Systems IV |
<racial> Frigate III [5] |
Drones V |
~ 72 days and 6 hours worth of training for a Scimitar (~ 3,6 million skillpoints) and ~ 77 days and 15 hours for a Basilisk (~ 3,9 million skillpoints)
| ||||
- ^ Energy Grid Upgrades is required for the cap, power diagnostic and reactor control modules.
- ^ a b c Basilisks only - Shield Upgrades IV, Hull Upgrades IV and Capacitor Emission Systems IV are required for the Large Shield Extender II, Damage Control II and remote capacitor transmitter modules
- ^ a b Signature Analysis V and Long Range Targeting V are requirements for the Logistics Cruisers skill.
- ^ Target Management V is a requirement for the Advanced Target Management skill.
- ^ <racial> Frigate III is a starter skill you normally have, but is included in case you have to cross-train out of your initial race.
- ^ a b Drone Durability I and Repair Drone Operation II is required to use shield maintenance drones.
- ^ Shield Emission Systems IV is already trained as a requirement for the Remote Shield Booster II module.
Recommended skills for logistics
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|
This skillplan is restricted to pilots in the Omega clone state. |
Since the minimum skills only gets you so far, it's important to continue training into the recommended logistics fit for logistics (and preferably the advanced fits too). This is important because being able to quickly upgrade from meta to tech two Remote Shield Booster II modules will ensure the safety of the fleet.
 Advanced [1]
|
Drone skills
|
 Rig skills [2]
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|---|---|---|
| ~ 68 days and 2 hours | ~ 15 days and 9 hours | ~ 3 days and 1 hours |
|
Power Grid Management V |
Repair Drone Operation V |
Jury Rigging III [5] |
- ^ This assumes you've already trained the skills listed under recommended.
- ^ Basilisk only - Increasing Shield Rigging will help counter the signature bloom of the shield rig on the basilisks.
- ^ Scimitar only - Needed to get enough cap. For basilisks this cuts down the training time by 14 days and 15 hours.
- ^ Basilisk only - Needed to get enough cap from a single remote capacitor transmitter chain instead of the usual two. For scimitars this cuts down the training time by 8 days and 12 hours.
- ^ Jury Rigging III is a requirement for the Shield Rigging skill.
Ongrid booster
Training into an ongrid booster requires quite a few months worth of training, even if you're doing it on an existing character. This is due to the fact it requires skills you normally wouldn't train unless you're specifically training to use command bursts. It's also a very long one that benefits greatly from using neural remaps.
Minimum skills for ongrid boosters
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|
This skillplan is restricted to pilots in the Omega clone state. |
Since 
Cybernetics V is required for the mindlink implant, consider training it first so you can also get +5 attribute implants and further improving your training time. The times listed below are, like all the other skill plans, assuming just the +3 attribute implants and no neural remaps. So there's plenty of room for optimization. These minimum skills will allow you to fly any of the minimum ongrid booster fits for vanguards.
EVEMon skillplans: Sleipnir (minimum skills)
| Core skills
|
Utility skills
|
Gunnery skills
|
Ship skills
|
 Fleet support skills
|
Drone skills
|
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| ~ 8 days and 4 hour | ~ 8 days and 2 hours | ~ 13 days and 14 hours | ~ 63 days and 13 hours | ~ 89 days and 18 hours | ~ 12 days and 9 hour |
|
CPU Management V |
Signature Analysis IV |
Motion Prediction IV |
Minmatar Frigate III |
Cybernetics V [5] |
Drones V |
| ~ 195 days, 12 hours worth of training in total (~ 9,6 million skillpoints) | |||||
- ^ Hull Upgrades IV is required to fit the Damage Control II module.
- ^ Target Painting is needed to use a target painter module.
- ^ Propulsion Jamming is needed to use a stasis webifier module.
- ^ a b c d Leadership V, Wing Command IV, Command Burst Specialist IV and Spaceship Command V are all needed to train Command Ships.
- ^ a b c Cybernetics V, Shield Command Specialist V and Skirmish Command Specialist V are needed for the Republic Fleet Command Mindlink implant.
- ^ Shield Command V is a requirement for Shield Command Specialist.
- ^ Skirmish Command V is a requirement for Skirmish Command Specialist.
- ^ a b c Leadership V, Command Burst Specialist IV and Wing Command IV are already required for Command Ships
- ^ Drones V, Light Drone Operation V and Amarr Drone Specialization I is required to use Acolyte II. It's acceptable to skip this skill initially if you can use other drones, like Warrior II drones, but train it as soon as possible.
Recommended skills for ongrid boosters
There are no real recommended skills for ongrid boosters apart from the minimum skills, as the bar is so high to begin with that the rest of the skills aren't really that critical. But wrapping up Command Ships V and Command Burst Specialist V as well as Medium Projectile Turret V, Medium Artillery Specialization IV could be convenient.
While you could train Fleet Command for longer area of effect, those aren't really needed for the vanguards we run, as we'll all stay well within the range of the base range you get with the pre-requisite Leadership V and Wing Command IV.
Further training
Once you've got the most pressing skills trained and you're looking towards further training, remember that in the time it takes to train a skill from IV to V you can usually train up a handful of other skills from I to IV. As a general rule of thumb we recommend that people train their skills up to IV before starting to max them out. Sometimes you need a skill that requires you to train another skill to V, so it's not always avoidable, but until you have a solid set of skills trained it makes sense to hold off on training skills to V.
When you start training skills to V it might be a good time to start doing some serious skillplanning and consider neural remaps and better attribute implants. While restrictive, a good neural remap and attribute upgrades can lower the training time significantly.
Honing your skills
Remember that the minimum and recommended skills are just the beginning and there is much room for improvement. Maxing out the gunnery and support skills and topping off your racial ship skills for example will make your ship much more efficient. You'll also have many more options to improve your fit with better fitting and support skills, like upgrading a module, drop an excessive tank module for more utility modules and so forth.
What you're going to train next differs a little bit based on what ship and what weapons you're going to use. For some fitting skills will be prioritized due to the lack of CPU or powergrid of their hull, for others capacitor skills are more important while others can simply go straight for better ship and gunnery skills.
Crosstraining into armour
While we primarily run shield fleets, most of the skills you use will be reusable for armour fleets as well. It wouldn't take too long to touch up on your armour skills to be able to run armour fleets. For unistas it also gives them great skills to use within the Wormhole Campus, as they run primarily armour fleets.
| Damage dealers
|
 Logistics
|
|---|---|
| ~ 18 days and 10 hours | ~ 46 days and 7 hours |
|
Hull Upgrades V |
Hull Upgrades V |
- ^ Remote Armor Repair Systems III is required to use armor maintenance bots.
- ^ Logistics need to train Remote Armor Repair Systems IV for the sake of reducing the cap usage of their remote armour repair modules.
Useful training for alts
It is no secret that having alts or several accounts are extremely useful in EVE. Incursions are no different and we can make good use of alts for a wide variety of things, especially unistas during war. The training times shown below are assuming the same +3 attribute implants as mentioned at the top of this page.
Hacker / Scout
Scouting can be done in pretty much any ship and doesn't require any skills at all, even shuttles. When it comes to hacking the racial exploration ships are very useful thanks to their bonuses and often very cheap to boot. There are a few skills that help, but for the most part you'll have the skills needed to hack right off the bat.
For more information about the role, see the hacker/scout section on the Roles in Incursions page.
Orca
The Orca is a wonderful ship that's more like a mobile base than just a ship. It has a ship maintenance bay to store ships, enough cargo hold to carry lots of ammo as well as spare modules, and an ore hold for Lyavite. Its refitting services and fleet hangar is also very useful for changing things up while in space, or to have a nearby stock of lyavite handy in a non-station system.
Even if you fly this ship on an alt that you cannot have logged on at the same time as your main character, the Orca is a tremendously useful ship.
Training into the Orca
| Support skills
|
Ship skills
|
 Leadership skills
|
 Navigation skills
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|---|---|---|---|
| ~ 5 days and 3 hours | ~ 5 days and 15 hours | ~ 10 days and 16 hours | ~ 1 days and 14 hours |
|
Hull Upgrades IV |
Spaceship Command V |
Leadership I |
High Speed Maneuvering III |
| ~ 23 days worth of training in total | |||
Minimum Orca fit
500MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Multispectrum Shield Hardener II
Multispectrum Shield Hardener II
Thermal Shield Hardener II
Kinetic Shield Hardener II
Reinforced Bulkheads II
Damage Control II
- With just the modules present and minimum skills, you'll have a tank of well over 291k+ effective hit points.
- If you want tank and go with Large Transverse Bulkhead II rigs your buffer can exceed 550k ehp vs regular gallente gankers.
- If you fit for warp speed with Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II rigs your warp speed can be as high as 3,5 AU/s.
- The Thermal Dissiplation Field II and Kinetic Shield Hardener II module will increase your tank vs gallente-gankers who do primarily
thermal and 
kinetic damage. This will raise your average ehp without really making you too vulnerable to minmatar gankers using 
EMP ammo.
Ore Hold
|
The ore hold can only carry ore but is perfect for lyavite and can hold at least 490 stacks which 149,940 m3 or 124,950 units of ore. (the base hold capacity is 150,000 m3 but increases with Industrial Command Ships up to 187,500 m3 which allows for 612 stacks in total)
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Fleet Hangar
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The fleet hangar is another 40,000 m3 that can be used for sharing the content with fleet members or as an additional store hold. (the fleet hangar can even fit an assembled frigate, but usually only one due to its size) |
Ship Maintenance Bay
The main function of a ship maintenance bay is that it can take fully assembled ships (no need to repackage them). Below is a short summary of the benefits and limitations of the ship maintenance bay.
- The ship maintenance bay can hold 400,000 m3 worth of assembled ships which is enough to hold ships as large as a battlecruiser-hull but not a battleship-hull (their size exceeds the 400k limit). Keep in mind that carrying several more valuable ships in the bay can make your Orca an attractive suicide gank target.
- The cargo scan will not show any modules fitted to ships in the maintenance bay, which is something you can take advantage of by putting your more costly modules on ships inside the maintenance bay, thus hiding them from scans, but remember they can still drop.
- Ships in the maintenance bay cannot have anything in their cargohold except charges (ie, ammunition and scripts), so modules must be fitted to the ships (but can be offlined) or placed in the Orca's regular cargohold or fleet hangar.
- You can give fleet members access to the ship maintenance bay while in space, allowing them to store, launch and board ships directly.
The ship maintenance bay allows for Orca pilots to bring several small ships or a select few cruiser-hulls. This will allow you to bring several incursion ships, or other ships to use while you wait; like mission/exploration ships. Here's a list of a few ships commonly used and how much room they take up in the maintenance bay.
| Logistics and strategic cruisers
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 Command ships
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Other ships
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|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
  |
 |
  |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
|
|
| 89,000 m3 | 107,000 m3 | 118,000 m3 | 80,000 m3 | 92,000 m3 | 115,000 m3 | 216,000 m3 | 252,000 m3 | 234,000 m3 | 18,900 m3 | 100,000 m3 |
Valet alt
Having an alt capable of flying your ships around is invaluable when your main character is at war or otherwise indisposed. If the purpose is just to fly the ship, they wouldn't need any gunnery skills whatsoever. The same character could theoretically become your dedicated incursion/mission alt down the line to make life easier for your main character, if you have the means to support a second account that is. Since each account comes with three character slots, everyone have the ability to make two alts for their account, meaning this is an option everyone has, it's not limited to people with multiple accounts.
Moving your actual main, who is in uni, can be done safely in something as simple as a shuttle. See travel fits for more information on how you can easily move your main to and from incursions when you want to run.
Below are various levels of training needed for different type of tanking capabilities. As a minimum, the Hull tanking and Ship skills is enough to fit a Damage Control II and Reinforced Bulkhead II modules for a solid 130 - 150k+ effective hit points buffer on a regular tech one battleship. If you train the Additional race as well, the alt could move a pirate faction battleship. The extra shield skills would allow you to upgrade the meta shield modules to tech two for a little bit more tank as well.
 Hull tanking
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Ship skills
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Additional race [1]
|
 Shield tanking [2]
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|---|---|---|---|
| ~ 1 day and 12 hours | ~ 3 days and 5 hours | ~ 2 days and 11 hours | ~ 5 day and 11 hours |
|
Hull Upgrades IV |
Spaceship Command IV |
<racial> Frigate III |
Shield Upgrades IV |
| Less than 4 days and 17 hours worth of training in total for a simple valet alt | |||
- ^ Optional - If you need your alt to be able to move a pirate faction battleship (since they require two racial ship skills).
- ^ Optional - Increasing the train to a handful of days means you can upgrade the shield tank and use the Large Shield Extender II, EM Shield Amplifier II as well as the Multispectrum Shield Hardener II modules (or any of the active hardeners or passive amplifiers).
Travel fits
The basic idea behind travel fits for the above mentioned valet alt is to not be at war (which is why we use the valet) and to simply replace any modules that do not help us travel safer, so as not to be worth ganking in the first place. This means that webs, target painters, damage modules etc are removed in favour of tanking modules. Here are some examples of travel fits for our minimum fits:
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I
Large Azeotropic Restrained Shield Extender
Large Azeotropic Restrained Shield Extender
Large Azeotropic Restrained Shield Extender
Limited Multispectrum Shield Hardener I
Limited Multispectrum Shield Hardener I
Limited Multispectrum Shield Hardener I
Reinforced Bulkheads II
Reinforced Bulkheads II
Reinforced Bulkheads II
Reinforced Bulkheads II
Damage Control II
Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Large Thermal Shield Reinforcer I
Modal Mega Neutron Particle Accelerator I
Modal Mega Neutron Particle Accelerator I
Modal Mega Neutron Particle Accelerator I
Modal Mega Neutron Particle Accelerator I
Modal Mega Neutron Particle Accelerator I
Modal Mega Neutron Particle Accelerator I
Large Azeotropic Restrained Shield Extender
Large Azeotropic Restrained Shield Extender
Limited Multispectrum Shield Hardener I
Limited Multispectrum Shield Hardener I
Limited Multispectrum Shield Hardener I
Reinforced Bulkheads II
Reinforced Bulkheads II
Reinforced Bulkheads II
Reinforced Bulkheads II
Reinforced Bulkheads II
Reinforced Bulkheads II
Damage Control II
Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Large Thermal Shield Reinforcer I
Modal Mega Neutron Particle Accelerator I
Modal Mega Neutron Particle Accelerator I
Modal Mega Neutron Particle Accelerator I
Modal Mega Neutron Particle Accelerator I
Modal Mega Neutron Particle Accelerator I
Modal Mega Neutron Particle Accelerator I
Modal Mega Neutron Particle Accelerator I
Modal Mega Neutron Particle Accelerator I
Large Azeotropic Restrained Shield Extender
Large Azeotropic Restrained Shield Extender
Large Azeotropic Restrained Shield Extender
Limited Multispectrum Shield Hardener I
Limited Multispectrum Shield Hardener I
Limited Multispectrum Shield Hardener I
Reinforced Bulkheads II
Reinforced Bulkheads II
Reinforced Bulkheads II
Reinforced Bulkheads II
Damage Control II
Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Large Thermal Shield Reinforcer I
Moving costly modules
The regular fits on the wiki have but a couple of expensive modules, like the 
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier and for some ships the 
Republic Fleet Target Painter, which totals about 
100 million. This can easily be carried in the hold of the travel fits above without much fear of becoming a gank target.
If you upgrade your ship with more expensive modules, such as deadspace and other faction modules, you should secure a better way of moving those expensive modules. The dedicated travel ships (except the shuttle) can easily hold the more expensive modules as they are often only 5 - 10 m3 in size and those ships can fit several modules in their hold.
Common guides
There are several common guides on the wiki already. Our needs in the incursion community are a little different, but it might be useful for general purposes or to get some inspiration of what else to train on your alt.
